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Author Topic: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire  (Read 13990 times)

lloydbob1

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2005, 04:36:51 pm »

Liberty Dollar this!  Liberty Dollar that!  The Damn thing is a Liberty 10 Dollar!  We need real Liberty Dollars, so, we can buy things, like, manicures!
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Gabo

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2005, 10:50:03 pm »

a) the value of silver fluctuates all the time
The worth of silver has hardly changed ever.  It fluctuates some, but stays almost always the same.

The only reason it seems to go up in value is because FRNS are worth less so you need more of them to buy it.



b) Bernards doubling algorithm, of doubling in FRN value if silver holds above $7.50/oz for three months, is double edged. Everone who buys ALDs after the doubling is at risk of losing half their value if silver drops below $7.50/oz for three months.
It is almost impossible that silver will go down in cost, because FRNS continue to inflate.  And as they inflate, more of them are needed to purchase the same item.

For silver to go back to the $10 base after reaching the $20 base, it would require some totally random miracle in which the FRN gains back much of the value it no longer has.



Now, you can say the ALD has the same face value no matter what the value of silver boullion, but so long as Bernard values the ALD in dollars, his currency will suffer the same decline in value as the FRN, because the FRN is the de facto standard of what a dollar is worth.
Yes it does seem awkward to put USD numbers on ALD, but I'm quite sure that is only a temporary measure to help people switch over from FRNS to ALDS.

Also, ALD can never decline in value, because it is silver.  It's worth whatever silver is worth, no matter what number it has on it.
Keeping ALD on a USD number system, along with the doubling rate, is what allows ALD to function side by side with the dollar without making it become useless like the dollar is.



Silver will, over the long term, I am convinced, rise in value against the dollar. The dollar is going to tank badly in the next several years, and people need to get out of it if they want to preserve the value of their investments. This does not mean there won't be fluctuations.
Fluctuations in the actual worth of silver are not very drastic.  Price fluctuations happen when being compared to the volatile USD, but they will become nonexistent when people stop using the USD.
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Gabriel

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2005, 08:09:30 am »

I'd like to point out that a) the value of silver fluctuates all the time is not necessarily the case. Fluctuates relative to what? Isn't it just as possible that it's the "what" that's fluctuating? Especially if the "what" is fiat paper?
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BagOfEyebrows

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2005, 08:11:37 pm »

this has been an informative and intelligent thread.  I love reading great debates. 

I'd never heard of the Liberty currency.  I'd probably buy the $107 batch that comes with the free video and books, keep one of each coin and bill (for collecting purposes as well as educational/historical reasons for my kids to know about this alternative money), and have a little adventure seeing what places would let me use the rest of the Liberty currency and which places would not.  Would be interesting to hear the reasons why/why not. 
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RidleyReport

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2005, 04:59:53 pm »

I live in Keene and the local cashiers practically fight over the coins with their managers when you pull one out.   I can't keep them from flying out of my pocket.   However people don't want the notes, just the coins.   

Can't wait to get some more...if the shipping is inexpensive enough I might become an associate to make a little profit.
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BlueLu

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2005, 01:59:33 pm »

Liberty Dollar this!  Liberty Dollar that!  The Damn thing is a Liberty 10 Dollar!  We need real Liberty Dollars, so, we can buy things, like, manicures!

There are lots of denominations, including 1 (Liberty) Dollar silver certificates.  Norfed would prefer that people not use the 1 dollar certificates, because they cost NORFED more than on FRN dollar each to produce and keep in circulation, but they are available, and if you are a Liberty Dollar user, I would think your local Liberty Dollar guy (don't remember their titles) would have to oblige you by giving you some at the going rate.
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mikefam

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2005, 06:14:49 pm »

the liberty dollar is kinda complicated first it is money(real money) and it seeks to compete with federal reserve notes(fiat money) and it is used as a vehicle of circulating information. i as an associate in norfed have abandoned using liberty dollars firstly because of economics ( i can get 1 ounce of .999 fine silver for less than $9.22)the math doesn't work out, secondly i couldn't look people in the eye and try to get them to "accept " liberty dollars. i couldn't bring my self to defraud them.(congress of the U.S.A. is the only body that can assign a value to lawful money;United States constitution part 1 artice 8  ) the liberty dollars are stamped 10 dollars and since the congress has set the value of 1 ounce of .999 silver at 1 us dollar there is an inherent fraud it the use of such coinage.  there is also the aspect of using the idea of a man that thinks he can change the value of money and the declaration of Independence with the stamp of a coin. 

     P.S.      the local liberty dollar guy only gets the discount on the actual silver, the paper receipts(paper liberty money) cost him face value and anyone else for that matter another reason i abandoned liberty money,it seemed more like a scam to sell silver at an inflated price rather than a way to form a new currency(no discount for paper means people would opt for the silver and people hoard the silver--- 
I live in Keene and the local cashiers practically fight over the coins with their managers when you pull one out. I can't keep them from flying out of my pocket. However people don't want the notes, just the coins.
making it extremly hard to get the currency or coinage to circulate,,, the US dollar gained in value today
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 10:16:10 am by mikefam »
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pk

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2005, 10:10:53 am »

I'm going to agree with Seth & co.... 

In my mind I've been battling with the idea of the Liberty Dollar for months.  In theory, it's a great idea.  I'd love to be able to use something other than USD.  Unfortunately, the Liberty Dollar has a fatal flaw- it is dependent on the USD.  I am certainly not an economist, but after much pondering, I've decided that the Liberty Dollar is really not much better than the USD.  It claims to be inflation proof, but if 1 LD = 1 USD, wouldn't it be worth just as little as USD?

Even more important than that, the LD has only a few denominations, so it is impossible to replace, or even seriously compete with the USD.  If you buy something that costs $6 and give them 10 LD, they give you $4 back, right?  How is this better?

Rather than use a currency BACKED by precious metals, what's wrong with just using precious metals?  What if everyone in a community decided to coin their own coins and just stamped the weight of the coin on it?  Wouldn't this be a better idea?  Of course, to start using the coins you would have to compare it to USD.  For example, if you have 1 oz. of silver, what can you buy?  We are trained to think in terms of dollars, not ounces of silver, so we'd have to retrain ourselves to know what the new coins are worth in goods.  You might have to look at how many USD 1 oz. of silver is equivalent to and what you can buy with that many dollars.  Then you price things in terms of oz. or whatever your currency is called.  This would eventually give you independence from the USD, and isn't this the point?
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Gabriel

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2005, 10:35:29 am »

Yes, setting prices in silver or gold instead of dollars is the only way to get completely off the federal system.

You wouldn't want to see widespread private coinage- too much trouble to verify the weight and purity of every new coin that came in. Instead, what you'd likely see is a few reliable companies putting out recognizable high-quality coins.

I suspect the big fight would be metric versus troy. How big would a 1-gram gold coin be? About the size of a dime, maybe?
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pk

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2005, 10:49:22 am »

People could eventually know imperfect coins when they see them and possiby weigh them themselves.  It is just as likely for a private company to make coins a little less than what they say (weight-wise) they are. 

I think communities could decide on metric or troy and basic shapes for standardization, but everyone would eventually be able to convert.

Size isn't the issue, but weight.  It doesn't really matter what size it is as long as it weighs the right amount.
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Gabriel

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2005, 10:59:19 am »

Size is a convenience issue; a coin that's too small or too big won't become popular just because people won't want to carry it around.

"It is just as likely for a private company to make coins a little less..."

I disagree. A company found to be shorting their weights would cease to have any customers as well as being open to fraud suits. Reputation is the most important currency in any business.
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JonM

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2005, 11:05:39 am »

The reason quarters and dimes have ridges is that people would shave the edges of the silver coins just ever so slightly.  Do it to enough quarters and you've got a bit of silver for your efforts.  There will always been people trying to game the system so long as there is a system to be gamed.  Paper currency fully backed by precious metal doesn't have that sort of shrinkage problem, it has the counterfeiting problem.  Not that someone might not try to counterfeit a coin, there just isn't as much profit margin in that unless you're dealing with gold.  For that you would need to be measuring weight and volume to be sure, possibly even checking to ensure someone didn't hollow a coin out and partially fill it with an alloy to get the weight and size right.

Six of one . . . but at least the coin has residual value, the problem is a pocket full of those get heavy.  Electronic transfers would be superior to both, but for the privacy and potential hacking issues.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 11:07:21 am by JonM »
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pk

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2005, 11:11:59 am »

I think we are thinking of different things with size.. Of course we'd want them to be a nice size, but I'm thinking more like every coin doesn't have to be exactly one size and exactly the same, like our current coins.  But I hope they'd all have holes in them so you can put them on a string and your money can double as jewelry.   :P

If a company is reputable, people may not bother to check the weight... We're human and humans are corruptible, but having the government regulate it isn't really ideal either... Having more than one reputable company would help, but what about distribution?  And how do they pay for labor, etc?

Coins get heavy, but they are worth more and last longer.  A pocket full of quarters is heavy too, but you can buy more with a pocket full of gold coins.
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BlueLu

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2005, 11:13:17 am »

the Liberty Dollar has a fatal flaw- it is dependent on the USD.  I am certainly not an economist, but after much pondering, I've decided that the Liberty Dollar is really not much better than the USD.  It claims to be inflation proof, but if 1 LD = 1 USD, wouldn't it be worth just as little as USD?

Not at all, once the LDs are worth more than USDs, they will trade at a higher rate of exchange.  One LD might be worth US$2 or US$1.25, and people will be flocking to LDs.

Even more important than that, the LD has only a few denominations, so it is impossible to replace, or even seriously compete with the USD.  If you buy something that costs $6 and give them 10 LD, they give you $4 back, right?  How is this better?

See 2 posts up in this thread.  All the useful denominations are available in LD or LD warehouse receipts.  Poke around on www.libertydollar.org, and you will see all of them.
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BlueLu

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Re: Liberty Dollar in New Hampshire
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2005, 11:15:05 am »

Yes, I am an economist.
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