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Author Topic: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord  (Read 61266 times)

Greenbacks

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2005, 08:09:07 pm »

Quote
How does this promote the "welfare of citizens of the State of New Hampshire"?

insure that people have been properly trained in how to clean their equipment...

excerpt:
"if someone is doing a manicure on you and blood gets on the instrument and if the instrument is not sterilized, the next client could be exposed to whatever bloodborne pathogen you may have, which could include anything from hepatitis C to HIV"

http://wcvb-tvhealth.ip2m.com/index.cfm?pt=itemDetail&item_id=8059&site_cat_id=37

caveat emptor

Caveat Emptor, "buyer beware", translates to a warning that customers are responsible for verifying the reputation of a business before purchasing a product or service from it.  This is the opposite of licensing.

is the real question how much people pay for not having to deal with the risks associated with caveat emptor?

how much of my $10 haircut am I paying extra?
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2005, 08:50:59 pm »

is the real question how much people pay for not having to deal with the risks associated with caveat emptor?

how much of my $10 haircut am I paying extra?

You probably have an equal risk whether licenses are required or not.  I know for a fact that many cheaper salons violate state laws to lower costs because that's the only way to lower costs, but they retain their licenses.  These regulations only serve to destroy our natural responsibilities and the value of private certifications and professional reputations.

Go to the cheapest licensed manicurist you can find and see what happens.  Chances are they'll use MMA (methyl methacrylate) on you even though this is banned in most states.  Licensing is unnatural, inefficient, ineffective, inflexible, bureaucratic, intrusive, and harmful to entry-level workers and entrepreneurs.  If you had any idea how fragile startup businesses are, or how poor entry-level workers are, you would never support these restrictions.
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Greenbacks

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2005, 09:07:06 pm »

is the real question how much people pay for not having to deal with the risks associated with caveat emptor?

how much of my $10 haircut am I paying extra?

You probably have an equal risk whether licenses are required or not.  I know for a fact that many cheaper salons violate state laws to lower costs because that's the only way to lower costs, but they retain their licenses.  These regulations only serve to destroy our natural responsibilities and the value of private certifications and professional reputations.

Go to the cheapest licensed manicurist you can find and see what happens.  Chances are they'll use MMA (methyl methacrylate) on you even though this is banned in most states.  Licensing is unnatural, inefficient, ineffective, inflexible, bureaucratic, intrusive, and harmful to entry-level workers and entrepreneurs.  If you had any idea how fragile startup businesses are, or how poor entry-level workers are, you would never support these restrictions.

never suggested that I support these restrictions. I fully understand how restrictions on the market affect the margins.

don't you think it would be beneficial to discuss how general risk avoidance shifts costs and distrots the market and give an example with licensing like you are but link it to other areas that are more meaningful to people like limited liability protection of the Seabrook Nuclear power facility or MTBE containmination (which Bass voted for) or lead hotspots from burning construction debris in Hopkinton?
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SteveA

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2005, 09:15:47 pm »

Quote
You probably have an equal risk whether licenses are required or not.  I know for a fact that many cheaper salons violate state laws to lower costs because that's the only way to lower costs, but they retain their licenses.

I know this is true of some doctors as well.  Instead of people trying to create a successful business, which includes providing cost effective values for customers and limiting their liability by assuring quality, the system tends to divert a lot of this energy toward trying to comply with laws of questionable merit, whether or not they provide any real value to anyone.

It places law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.  While diverting public resources away from serious issues.  So when a manicurists is hauled away for not adequately seeking permission, whether or not any harm has been done, it deprives the state of other resources that could be used better ... or should I say it ... not even taken from people in the first.  And the use of force and lack of accountability from government institutions creates a system prone to abuse and corruption.  Private endeavors are held accountable easier and are judged my the marketplaces in their performance.  Government is a defacto monopoly and there's little need to 'prove' its laws have any benefit because competition in this arena is forcibly denied and poor performing ones don't 'go out of business' but just eat up more resources to compensate.

And regarding the HIV issue, even if HIV were prone to being transmitted by manicurists and that was viewed as an imminent enough public threat, then the law should address that directly but again there are ways of doing the same thing in a private realm or in a public non-legal fashion.  For example, for less cost to the public, the state or private sectors could instead provide guidelines to promote safety in manicuring.  If such information were generally available and a manicurist disregarded it or was reckless with regard to customer safety then they could easily be held more accountable if either some imminent threat or actually harm later occured.  For example, talking on a cell phone while driving or transporting heavy objects might create additional public dangers but don't generally cause any problems.  Instead of preemptively stopping an action that has benefit to people because it might be unsafe at times, you can increase the public knowledge and penalities associated with those actions that create an imminent threat or actual harm.

So, to deter safety problems with people talking on a cell phones while driving, you don't make the action that doesn't harm anyone illegal - talking on a cell phone while driving.  You make the reckless driving or property damage illegal and then proceed to inform people of actions that promote this and then inform then they have been adequately notified and can be held accountable as such.  If someone can find a way to safely drive while using a cell phone they shouldn't be punished nor should the tradeoff be denied that some calls might be very important and people should be allowed a judgement call weighing the risks.  Imagine someone wanting to call a phone # shown on a truck to report dangerous driving by the truck driver but not doing it because such a call is illegal.  It would be safer to have that person make the call but the problem is that law, though intended to increase safety actually diminished it by not addressing the real issue directly.  Life will never be without risks, we can only seek to minimize them and expecting are willing.  And the legal system would be a whole lot simpler and intuitive if it actually made sense ... we might have a lot fewer lawbreakers if people could actually guess what may or may not be illegal (but hey, maybe the system is designed to be arbitrary so everyone can be charged with something if the need arose).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 09:38:36 pm by SteveA »
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Dreepa

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2005, 09:50:59 pm »

Quote
How does this promote the "welfare of citizens of the State of New Hampshire"?

insure that people have been properly trained in how to clean their equipment...

excerpt:
"if someone is doing a manicure on you and blood gets on the instrument and if the instrument is not sterilized, the next client could be exposed to whatever bloodborne pathogen you may have, which could include anything from hepatitis C to HIV"

http://wcvb-tvhealth.ip2m.com/index.cfm?pt=itemDetail&item_id=8059&site_cat_id=37

caveat emptor

Oh I get it... having a license means you won't transmit HIV.. that makes a lot of sense................unreal.

A piece of paper that means you paid $x to the state.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2005, 09:55:57 pm »

never suggested that I support these restrictions. I fully understand how restrictions on the market affect the margins.

don't you think it would be beneficial to discuss how general risk avoidance shifts costs and distrots the market and give an example with licensing like you are but link it to other areas that are more meaningful to people like limited liability protection of the Seabrook Nuclear power facility or MTBE containmination (which Bass voted for) or lead hotspots from burning construction debris in Hopkinton?

It sounds like you are more qualified to make such a comparison than I am!  Feel free to do so at any time.   ;)
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2005, 11:37:12 pm »

Licensing is just protection for established business, that's it and that's all.  It does nothing for consumers but give them false security.  Example:

I got fucked over by hiring an unlicensed handyman to do some work on my house.  So, my lady suggested I go with someone licensed next time.  I needed some plumbing work done, so I hired a "licensed" plumber, and got screwed again, this time it was more expensive because he was licensed.

I've had licensed and unlicensed roofing done... both was crap.

Fuck licensing, it does nothing to separate the good from the bad.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2005, 09:38:04 am »

This event will be covered in a 500 to 600-word article in the Exeter Newsletter this Friday and again in a follow-up article next Friday!  :o  A reporter interviewed me this morning by phone.  She really likes the idea and the principle behind this civil disobedience!!!  :)
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2005, 09:47:56 am »

Nice job.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2005, 03:23:53 pm »

Just received another letter today from the NH DOJ that states:


Attorney General
Department of Justice

33 Capitol Street
Concord, New Hampshire 03301-6397

Kelly A. Ayotte
Attorney General

Michael A. Delaney
Deputy Attorney General

May 2, 2005

William S. McGraw, Clerk
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 North Main St
Concord, NH  03301

RE:  State of New Hampshire v. Michael B. Fisher

Dear Clerk McGraw:

Please find enclosed Exhibits A and B for attachment to the State's Petition for Preliminary and Permanent Injunctive Relief that was filed on Friday, April 29, 2005.

Thank you for your considerate attention to this matter.

Sincerely,


Elyse S. Alkalay
Attorney
Civil Bureau

Enclosures

CC:  Michael Fisher


Then the letter to the Board (Exhibit A) and the initial press release (Exhibit B) were attached to the letter.
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MichaelY

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2005, 09:39:41 am »

Sent my money order for 50 lousy FRN's to Mike F's Legal Defense Fund yesterday morning (Mike, let me know via Private Message if you don't get it).

Looks like he is gonna need it.. :(
Anyone else willing to contribute?
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2005, 10:22:10 am »

The media called again this morning and told me about a hearing on Friday but I had not been made aware of it yet.  The Sheriff stopped by today but I did not hear him knock because I was listening to my wife's CD.  ;D  He left a document on my front door:


THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 N. Main Street P. O. Box 2880
Concord, NH 03301 2880
603 225-5501

ORDER OF NOTICE


The State of New Hampshire v. Michael Fisher

NO . 05 - E - 01 72
RETURN DAY:  06/07/2005

You have been sued and named as a party in a case filed with the Merrimack County Superior Court. Attached is a copy of the pleading which began this case.

The State of New Hampshire shall notify each Defendant of the above action by serving the defendant(s) immediately with a copy of the pleading initiating the case, orders that the Court has already issued, and this Order in a manner allowed by law.  Plaintiff shall file with the Clerk verification of the service process by June 07, 2005.

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO Michael Fisher:
You must file a written appearance form with the Clerk on or before June 07, 2005. You must also file by July 07, 2005 a plea, answer or demurrer.  Send a copy of the appearance form and any other documents filed with the court to the attorney for the party filing the pleading or to the party if there is no attorney.  The name and address of the attorney or the party filing the pleading is contained in the pleading.  If you do not comply with these requirements you will be considered in default, you will not have an opportunity to dispute the claim(s) and the court may issue orders in this matter which may affect you without your input.

NOTICE OF HEARING: A Hearing on the following matters is scheduled for May 06, 2005 at 9:00 AM. in Concord:

Temporary Hearing

Hearing will be limited to offers of proof, 15 minutes per party. Motions for a more extended hearing will be addressed at this hearing. Parties against whom ex parte relief has been issued may request a more immediate hearing. Service of this notice must be effected immediately.

Please advise clients, witnesses, and others that it is a class B felony to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V in a courtroom or area used by a court.

SERVICE IS TO BE MADE FORTHWITH.

BY ORDER OF THE SUPERIOR COURT

05/03/2005

William McGraw
Clerk of Court


AOC Form SUEP140 (Rev. 09/20/2001)
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2005, 10:35:05 am »

They want your ass, Mike.  Seriously reconsider the guilty plea... don't legitimize their law by accepting it.   :o
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Gabriel

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2005, 10:56:56 am »

The media called again this morning and told me about a hearing on Friday but I had not been made aware of it yet.  The Sheriff stopped by today but I did not hear him knock because I was listening to my wife's CD.  ;D  He left a document on my front door:


What in the world are they charging you with already? You haven't done anything yet except talk.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2005, 11:26:04 am »

It is amazing that they are calling you in for, simply, claiming you're going to do something ilegal.
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