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Author Topic: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord  (Read 61213 times)

LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2005, 11:20:17 pm »

GUYS AND GIRLS!!!

The idea of civil disobedience for liberty is SPREADING!

We have Russell Kanning's FTT (Freedom to Travel) event coming up on June 11th and another event in Kentucky regarding underage drinking laws coming up on July 2nd!

 8)
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KBCraig

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #121 on: May 25, 2005, 10:26:01 am »

GUYS AND GIRLS!!!

The idea of civil disobedience for liberty is SPREADING!

Are we protesting prostitution laws?  ;D

Kevin
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Pat K

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #122 on: May 25, 2005, 04:54:25 pm »

I  thought of a slogan for this one , but probably best to keep it to myself.
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Jason Osborne ‎"Fighting for reduction of government" is kind of like smashing your dick in a car door to reduce the pain of smashing your dick in the car door, and then getting pissed at the folks who don't want to smash their dicks in car doors as if it is their fault that your dick hurts.

"I don't recommend looking towards a government building if you don't want to see indecent behavior."  --Russell Kanning

KBCraig

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #123 on: May 26, 2005, 12:47:46 am »

GUYS AND GIRLS!!!

The idea of civil disobedience for liberty is SPREADING!

Are we protesting prostitution laws?  ;D


Sorry to piggyback my own post, but I thought of another: "protesting TSA means bending over and SPREADING!"

I slay myself.  ;D

Kevin
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KBCraig

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #124 on: May 26, 2005, 12:49:00 am »

I  thought of a slogan for this one , but probably best to keep it to myself.

Would it have anything to do with "FTT"? As in, FTW, FTA, FTT(SA)?

Kevin
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rodschmidt

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No ID at Airport
« Reply #125 on: May 31, 2005, 06:32:30 pm »

A few years ago, John Gilmore refused to show ID.  He wasn't arrested, but they wouldn't let him on the plane.  He sued.  It's still on appeal. 

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/05058/462446.stm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1568/is_4_35/ai_105644256

http://www.reason.com/0308/fe.bd.suspected.shtml

This is the same John Gilmore who co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 08:04:37 pm by rodschmidt »
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rodschmidt

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Unlicensed Manicure: What is the issue?
« Reply #126 on: May 31, 2005, 06:41:42 pm »

Some of the editorials say licensing laws are good because we shouldn't let untrained people near our bodies with sharp objects.

What is the issue?

That licensing laws don't really protect the public safety, so they shouldn't exist?

That licensing laws do protect the public safety, but the harm to business startups exceeds that benefit, so they shouldn't exist?

That licensing laws demand more than is necessary or reasonable to protect the public safety, for their other purpose of maintaining a barrier to entry, so the requirements should be smaller?

That licensing laws lump together safe and unsafe activities, so they should cover fewer activities?

That the government should be issuing certificates of competency rather than licenses?

That private-sector institutions, which don't yet exist, will do a better job of protecting the public safety?

If you don't define the issue, your opponents will define it for you.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Unlicensed Manicure: What is the issue?
« Reply #127 on: May 31, 2005, 07:16:18 pm »

Some of the editorials say licensing laws are good because we shouldn't let untrained people near our bodies with sharp objects.

What is the issue?

That private-sector institutions, which don't yet exist, will do a better job of protecting the public safety?

If you don't define the issue, your opponents will define it for you.

Good question!  It seems like my quotes in the press were all over the place.  I used many different arguments to justify my event.  That was my mistake.

The primary issue is that private-sector institutions, which ALREADY exist, will do a better job of protecting the public safety.  There are many, many private educational institutions in these fields.  Any of these can sell certifications.  A non-government accrediting commission already exists to set minimum standards for these schools:

The National Accrediting Commission of Cosmetology Arts and Sciences
http://www.naccas.org/

This commission basically "certifies" nail technician schools, many of which give out nail technician "certifications" to graduates.

The primary issues are:
-a non-government alternative already exists;
-it is a consumer's right and responsibility to make their own purchasing decisions based on a business' reputation, certification, and other criteria.  Licensing takes this right and responsibility away from all of us when it limits the businesses we can choose from.
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rodschmidt

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Another Non-ID Idea
« Reply #128 on: May 31, 2005, 08:12:46 pm »

There is no law requiring you to show ID when entering a federal building or federal courthouse.

A few months after 9/11/2001, the Federal Marshals simply put up signs: "PHOTO ID REQUIRED" but as far as I can tell, Congress never acted (hint: only Acts of Congress are binding on us) and neither did any executive agency, at least they never published anything in the Federal Register.  It's not in the Patriot Act, it's not in the GSA rules, it's not anywhere.

I wrote a couple of letters and made phone calls about this, with no result.  Those signs do not contain a statement of authority, as such signs normally do (example: NO PARKING ON THE BEACH, ORS 123.456).

Any takers?

Interesting angle: Trials are supposed to be public.  The public is an "undifferentiated mass."  The subset of the public, consisting of people who have photo IDs, is not the public.  So there have been no public trials since about 11/01/2001.  So if you know someone convicted recently in federal court, maybe it can get overturned for lack of a public trial.  Or if someone is about to be tried...
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rodschmidt

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Re: Unlicensed Manicure: What is the issue?
« Reply #129 on: May 31, 2005, 08:24:30 pm »

The National Accrediting Commission of Cosmetology Arts and Sciences
http://www.naccas.org/

This commission basically "certifies" nail technician schools, many of which give out nail technician "certifications" to graduates.


OK, not to rain on your parade or gild the lily or anything, but as they say in the SAT's, the argument would have been stronger if you had had one of these certificates. 

Also, for whoever wants to do the next stunt:   Print up a T-shirt with the URL of a webpage where you explain the stunt.  Hopefully it will show in the news photos.

And in case I need to say it, congratulations and kudos for doing the stunt.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Unlicensed Manicure: What is the issue?
« Reply #130 on: May 31, 2005, 08:37:16 pm »

OK, not to rain on your parade or gild the lily or anything, but as they say in the SAT's, the argument would have been stronger if you had had one of these certificates. 

Brilliant!  That would have made the argument much stronger!

It would have been $5,000 worth of school for a certification though.   :-\

Thank you very much for the feedback!  :)

I really like your courthouse idea.  It is definitely something we'll have to look further into since I've never even heard of this requirement before.  Someone could organize an event to go to a federal courthouse for a legitimate reason and refuse to show ID.  The question is, what would happen to them?  Would they be allowed in with no ID and no extra search?

We need someone to test the concept of entering without an ID to see what happens before an event is organized around it.  It would be easier if we could find a case where someone has already tried this.

Or we could just call a federal courthouse and ask what they would do.  ;)
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rodschmidt

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Courthouse with no ID
« Reply #131 on: May 31, 2005, 09:17:45 pm »

In case I didn't make it clear, the Federal Marshals are the ones manning the metal detectors and screening visitors.  Here in Portland OR, they have a Site Supervisor and a Head Marshal.

The first time, I showed my Costco card and the marshal let me thru.

The second time, I asked what constitutes ID and the marshal said drivers license etc., and he said that for example, a Costco card would not do.  (I don't think he was the same guy.  So I think that after the first time, the guy told his boss about the incident, somebody had a meeting and sent out a memo.) Then he said "I can't let you through, but you can sit and wait over there" pointing to a bench on the other side of the glass doors...past the metal detector.  So he was saying "I can't let you in, but come on in."  I went in and sat, and they didn't watch me to see whether I was going to get up and escape into the rest of the building.  From time to time one of them looked at me...probably wondering why I was just sitting and not escaping.

The third time, the marshal took a hard line and said "that's the rule" and wouldn't let me through.  He said go to the law library and look it up, which I did, finding nothing. 

I haven't been back there since.

The next step would be to write up the lawsuit, assuming typical facts.  They might tell me to leave, at which point it would be trespassing if I didn't.  They might lay hands on me, so then I could sue for false arrest, false imprisonment, assault, battery and kidnapping.  Since there is no such rule, they would not be covered by their special status.
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LeRuineur6

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #132 on: May 31, 2005, 11:33:25 pm »

There is only a 1.3% chance that a lawsuit against the police will be successful.

Public civil disobedience is far more likely to gain support for the cause, but that typically includes an event with media coverage and an immediate guilty plea.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Event on 5/9 in Concord
« Reply #133 on: June 01, 2005, 05:29:06 pm »

Since when was our government bureaucracy "bound" by laws the congress makes?......the IRS still takes people's property without any laws backing them up.

I am against licensing, because we shouldn't have to accept it.
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
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