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Author Topic: Questions about the prospective states  (Read 7422 times)

LoTec

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Questions about the prospective states
« on: July 24, 2002, 02:10:51 pm »

I live in Oregon.  Right now we have both doctor assisted suicide and medical marijuana.  Also, assets can't be forfeited without a criminal conviction.  Pornography and nude dancing are protected as my state has invalidated it's obscenity laws and thus would need an amendment to the state Constitution to outlaw them.  Oregon has no laws prohibiting sodomy and also allows homosexuals to adopt children.

Of the prospective states, do any have a decent chance of creating similar policies, or even more liberty-oriented, regarding medical marijuana, pornography/nude entertainment, euthanasia, asset forfeiture, sodomy, and gay adoption?

Are there any states up for consideration that already have policies similar or even more liberty-oriented than Oregon's on these issues?

EditFor - Clarity
« Last Edit: July 24, 2002, 05:57:27 pm by LoTec »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2002, 08:52:58 pm »

Vermont is one of the states we're considering, and it's certainly as liberal as, if not more liberal than, Oregon on all those issues.  One of the problems with Oregon, though, is its extremely authoritarian approach to land-use regulation.  To some extent Vermont suffers from this, but a much more local scale.  I think our best bet is to look for a state that's small enough that we can influence and that has tendencies toward liberty in both the economic and personal spheres.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

admin

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2002, 10:07:15 pm »

Just thought I'd give my 2 cents that I don't consider gay adoption to necessarily be a pro-libertarian position.

The list of positions you posted just makes Oregon seem like a "lefty" place.  Is it also pro-gun, low tax and low regulation?

Charles
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LoTec

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2002, 01:26:05 am »

For Jason P. Sorens
"One of the problems with Oregon, though, is its extremely authoritarian approach to land-use regulation.  To some extent Vermont suffers from this, but a much more local scale.  I think our best bet is to look for a state that's small enough that we can influence and that has tendencies toward liberty in both the economic and personal spheres."

=> I was not intending to suggest Oregon as an option, only seeking to find out which states under consideration would offer the same or greater social freedoms.  Thank you for your information about Vermont, I will research it further.  I apologize for the confusion in regards to Oregon being suggested as a state.  

For Charles
"Just thought I'd give my 2 cents that I don't consider gay adoption to necessarily be a pro-libertarian position."

=> Your 2 cents is always appreciated both here and at LU.  I consider gay adoption a libertarian issue because laws against gay adoption establish a criminal penalty for adults that engage in actions that have no victim.  In essence they criminalize homosexual activity.  Laws against gay adoption also restrict parental rights beyond prohibiting physical or sexual abuse of children.  

The list of positions you posted just makes Oregon seem like a "lefty" place.  Is it also pro-gun, low tax and low regulation?

=> It may be a somewhat "lefty" place.  But, if it is libertarian socially then half the work is already done  ;D  Oregon does offer CCW permits but they are $65 and require some training (Three hours I think).  Oregon has no sales tax and likely never will.  Recent amendments to the state constitution have stemmed the growth of property taxes and lowered state income taxes.  There is a strong anti-tax contigent in our state legislature that compromises little, if ever, on any tax raise.  We have double majority requirements, also recently passed, for revenue acts.  Residents recently passed an amendment to the state Constitution that would require the state to compensate individuals for any regulatory action that lowered the value of their property.  Oregon's initiative process allows citizens to amend the state Constitution without the interference of the state legislature.  This is handy if you have an issue with some support but cannot get enough legislators to pass it.  We also have no term limits.

We have a county that has, by voter approved measures, banned the UN from entering its borders and also lets local residents cut trees on federal land, whether or not the U.S. Forest Service says it's legal or environmentally acceptable.  

We've got our fair share of anarchists.  I'm not sure how many of them are anarcho-capitalists but at least they aren't very big on government.  We also have decent sized contigent of farmers that took it upon themselves to disobey the feds and open the headgates to their irrigation streams multiple times last year.  

EditFor: Added the below

I didn't intend to suggest Oregon be on the FSP list of candidates.  My only concern is signing up, moving, and ending up in a state that favors right-libertarians without benefiting left-libertarians.  I expect the free state to eventually allow me greater social freedoms than those I currently enjoy.  I want prostitution, drugs, gambling, polygamy, sodomy, homosexual marriage and adoption, pornography, and euthanasia - as well as low taxes, low regulation, and lots of guns.

Edit2for: Clarified
« Last Edit: July 25, 2002, 01:52:00 am by LoTec »
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Eddie_Bradford

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2002, 11:57:23 am »

Quote
I expect the free state to eventually allow me greater social freedoms than those I currently enjoy.  I want prostitution, drugs, gambling, polygamy, sodomy, homosexual marriage and adoption, pornography, and euthanasia - as well as low taxes, low regulation, and lots of guns.

Edit2for: Clarified


So do I and I think most people here!  :D
I agree with you that libertarians and this group tend to emphasize the tax issues more than others.  One of my biggest issues with freedom in this country is police.  You shouldn't live in mortal fear of a police officer when you're pulled over.  It really is military rule in some places.  There are simply no checks or balances to police in so many areas of the Country.  They can literally do whatever they want and the only thing you're guranteed is that if you didn't do anything wrong then you'll probably be out of jail soon.  People get killed all the time on accident by the police and no one really seems to see anything wrong with that.  If you've killed say 5 or 6 people that weren't threatening you then that can serious harm your career advancement as a police officer but that's about it.  Am I crazy here or should we seriously think about firing a police officer who accidently kills someone who wasn't threatening anyone?  Or at least give him a desk job sheesh!  
-Eddie
(P.S. It happens alot more than you think!)
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debra

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2002, 12:04:59 pm »


[ Am I crazy here or should we seriously think about firing a police officer who accidently kills someone who wasn't threatening anyone?  Or at least give him a desk job sheesh!  
-Eddie
(P.S. It happens alot more than you think!)


Sierra Times (www.sierratimes.com) has a section of their news site called "Whack 'n Stack".  It lists news stories and articles that involve a police officer killing a citizen who was unarmed and/or not threatening the officer, and (usually) the officer gets off lightly.  There are some *scary* stories...and they aren't the "black helicopter" references ("I knew a guy whose neighbor's ex-wife was ... "). These are stories taken straight from AP, BBC, Reuters, etc.  In other words, verfied.
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Mega Joule

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2002, 09:11:56 pm »

Quote
Quote
Quote from: Debra J Ricketts [/quote

Sierra Times (www.sierratimes.com) has a section of their news site called "Whack 'n Stack".  It lists news stories and articles that involve a police officer killing a citizen who was unarmed and/or not threatening the officer, and (usually) the officer gets off lightly.  There are some *scary* stories...and they aren't the "black helicopter" references ("I knew a guy whose neighbor's ex-wife was ... "). These are stories taken straight from AP, BBC, Reuters, etc.  In other words, verfied.
Check out the link Dex posted in Current Events about the FBI shooting of an innocent, unarmed man because he failed to comply with conflicting orders during a traffic stop.  
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=108

Mega Joule
« Last Edit: August 05, 2002, 09:19:00 pm by Mega Joule »
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antayla

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Re:Questions about the prospective states
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2002, 04:44:25 am »


Oregon has no sales tax and likely never will.  

.... Residents recently passed an amendment to the state Constitution that would require the state to compensate individuals for any regulatory action that lowered the value of their property.  

....I didn't intend to suggest Oregon be on the FSP list of candidates.  My only concern is signing up, moving, and ending up in a state that favors right-libertarians without benefiting left-libertarians.  I expect the free state to eventually allow me greater social freedoms than those I currently enjoy.  I want prostitution, drugs, gambling, polygamy, sodomy, homosexual marriage and adoption, pornography, and euthanasia - as well as low taxes, low regulation, and lots of guns.



actually I would much rather have a sales tax than this stupid income tax on my back.  at least it would be easier to avoid sales tax.  I don't buy a lot of luxury items any way.

the property value legislation is still going through the court isn't it ?  I voted for it but it is a logistical nightmare... I wonder if they ever get it sorted out.

I am from Oregon as well, and have some doubts about this project too... mostly revolving around issues like public parks, public libraries, public lands, education, mass transit etc.  But perhaps more citizen involvement will be the result of all this.  I really hope so :)
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