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Author Topic: White Mountain Land Club  (Read 40616 times)

varrin

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2004, 10:25:20 pm »

Not 100% sure but I think RV's on rec property isn't a problem.  The problem is building.

As for property rights...  I don't really want to get into a long drawn out debate.  Let's just say that the rules about what I can build and how are pretty onerous compared to other places I've lived.  Land use laws (zoning, building codes, etc.) affected the size of my house, the location of it on the lot, the shape of it, the driveway (a whole story itself), how trees were moved (no joke), and lots of other things.  I'm not talking about theory here, I'm talking about real life things that I wanted to do but couldn't because they would violate the law.  And those very same things I *could* have done (and *have* done) other places I've lived (California, Florida and Kentucky).  

And I'm not the only one who has been materially affected.  Commercial development has been severely stunted because of building codes.  Chilis and Target had to literally threaten to leave over the absurd restrictions placed on them.  I'm sure their mill-look buildings will look spiffy.  But it's not my land...

Sorry if I'm ranting here, but really, does anyone really care if I have a 30 foot wide driveway or if there's a Chili pepper on top of the Chilis building?  Good grief...

V-
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BlueLu

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2004, 10:45:45 pm »

I agree with you, Varrin.  Keene's restrictions and permitting process sound horrible.  In fact they sound as horrible as those in the town I live in, where Wal-mart was actually willing to do all the wacky things the town requires to build a commercial building and also build us a new free library, and still the townspeople raised a referendum to stop the building plan in what the mayor termed a case of "thinly disguised discrimination [against Wal-mart]."  

We've gotta fight these arbitrary real estate takings by the towns.
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freedomroad

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 07:29:25 am »

Sorry if I'm ranting here, but really, does anyone really care if I have a 30 foot wide driveway or if there's a Chili pepper on top of the Chilis building?  Good grief...

NH still has Grafton and plenty of other towns without many codes.  The land trust is (unless changed) dealing with Grafton anyway.  Jnoyes, did you know that people have been trying to do this very thing in Grafton for months?
 
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freedomroad

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2004, 07:39:28 am »

In fact they sound as horrible as those in the town I live in, where Wal-mart was actually willing to do all the wacky things the town requires to build a commercial building and also build us a new free library, and still the townspeople raised a referendum to stop the building plan in what the mayor termed a case of "thinly disguised discrimination [against Wal-mart]."  

In my old town, the all Republican town council had a choice b/t letting the Wal-Mart expand into a supercenter or have Wal-Mart move to a mostly Democratic town.  The 'profreedom' Republicans voted against the expansion (something about how X % of property has to be trees and grass).  A Super Wal-Mart opened up two miles down the road in the Democratic town.  Since Wal-Mart was one of the largest tax payers in the Republican town, property taxes went way up and now there is a big ugly building in town.
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TrueLiberal

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2004, 06:52:30 pm »

I would do it. Buy a share, that is... It would depend on building restrictions though.
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jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2004, 12:02:22 pm »

NH bound,

I am aware of the freetown project in grafton and no offense to the those people but I got the feel that it was intended more for land speculation and development... by someone who already had big money to invest and who was looking to profit by selling lots or housing accomadations to incoming porcupines.  
Im not interested in profiting at other peoples expense by becoming a land speculator or a developer.

Really at this point for five grand , Id like 10 Acres of camp-ground north of the notch with full southern exposure.  I figure I'll use it for camping at first and build my dream house on it over time.

 
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jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2004, 12:41:28 pm »

Oh one more point I was looking through the New Hampshire statutes and I got the impression that the land ownership/control is divided up between the towns and the state.  If we cant stand the zoning regulations from the pre-existing towns lets find a piece that isnt in any pre-existing town.  Perhaps we need to look to the state controlled land in between the towns---maybe we could even apply for independent township status if the population density warrants it

...that way we decide what kind of zoning restrictions (if any) there are in our town ....
Freedom, New Hampshire...it has a nice ring to it don't you think.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2004, 12:44:53 pm by jnoyes »
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The authority and responsibility between families, villages and states should be democratic only in the realms that must by necessity be commonly shared.  There is little need for state authority over the village, and precious few things should be the concern of the nation.

BlueLu

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2004, 01:28:28 pm »

This was suggested a while back, and it is not possible.  The only land not in a township is a national park.  NH is not set up like large states out west, where there are incorporated towns and cities, and then land that is "just out in the county".  In NH, even the rural land is in some township with jurisdiction over it.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2004, 02:25:21 pm »

This was suggested a while back, and it is not possible.  The only land not in a township is a national park.  NH is not set up like large states out west, where there are incorporated towns and cities, and then land that is "just out in the county".  In NH, even the rural land is in some township with jurisdiction over it.


All NH land is divided into townships, but some of those townships are not incorporated towns.  See the gray areas on this property tax map on Adam's site:
http://lfod.org/taxmap02.png
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jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2004, 06:00:42 pm »

Thanks for the map Jason ;)

the gray areas represent:

Atkinson & Gilmanton
Dix's Grant
Second College Grant
Cambridge
Odell Millsfield
Erving's Grant
KilKenney
Low & Burbanks Grant
Bean's Purchase
Martin's Location
Crawfords Purchase
Bean's Grant
Cutt's
Hadley's Purchase

All in Coos County
 
Livermore in Grafton County

and two areas in Rockingham...which I couldnt find but which I assume are beach's and island areas off the sea coast.

Anyways, it would be great to have a little help finding out what areas of these townships are still available for purchase...assuming many of them are probably devoted to national parks already.

So I'll start with Atkinson & Gilmanton and work my way down the list posting as I go...feel free to chime in everyone, this could take awhile on my own  :D
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The authority and responsibility between families, villages and states should be democratic only in the realms that must by necessity be commonly shared.  There is little need for state authority over the village, and precious few things should be the concern of the nation.

jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2004, 06:51:02 pm »

Atkinson & Gilmanton Academy Grant:
It was made by the state legislature to Gilmanton Academy
and Atkinson Academy in equal shares in 1809 and contained about 19,000 acres (77 km²).
Looks like current population is 12 people.


copy and paste below link to see a nice topo map of the area
if you notice lat. and lon. are included
but for usgs laymen look above second college grant on the Maine border

http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm?lat=44.993989&lon=-71.124056&scale=100000&zoom=50&type=1&icon=0&width=498&height=498&searchscope=dom&CFID=858139&CFTOKEN=85589260&scriptfile=http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm&latlontype=DMS

Livermore: was once a logging town but now all but 12 acres are part of the national forest
Second academy grant: is owned by Dartmouth college for preservation purposes.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2004, 12:50:42 pm by jnoyes »
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The authority and responsibility between families, villages and states should be democratic only in the realms that must by necessity be commonly shared.  There is little need for state authority over the village, and precious few things should be the concern of the nation.

jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2004, 08:06:15 pm »

a super informative regional link

http://www.allroutes.to/chambersofcommerce/

props to Mr. Edward Sanders
« Last Edit: December 07, 2004, 08:19:10 pm by jnoyes »
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The authority and responsibility between families, villages and states should be democratic only in the realms that must by necessity be commonly shared.  There is little need for state authority over the village, and precious few things should be the concern of the nation.

jnoyes

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Re:Land for a Coop
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2004, 12:48:26 pm »

an update on the buyers group:
Ive gotten interest from 3 other people so far with a rough estimate of 25-40 thousand dollars as the buying pool so far.

Ill be sending out a mass email to everyone that has shown interest in mid-march and we will take commitment statements about cash then.  Once we have an idea about how big the money pool is likely to be, we can look more critically for which parcel to buy.  Ill be going to the 2005 porc fest in late July and if I don't see the buyers group members there Ill take pictures and scope out the parcels myself.

Incidentially Ive acquired 1/2 an acre in haverhill NH that Ill be camping on and likely clearing for future home construction; as a base, in case this round of the buyers group fails.

Ill keep you informed

Jeremy

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The authority and responsibility between families, villages and states should be democratic only in the realms that must by necessity be commonly shared.  There is little need for state authority over the village, and precious few things should be the concern of the nation.

jnoyes

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A little info about Coos county and many of the unincorporated areas
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2005, 10:34:27 am »

Thanks Joe I stole this from ya ;) hope you don't mind.

Coos County populations, checklist voter registration, voter turnout.
Town, Township, Grant, etc.1990Census2000CensusList R'sList D'sList U's2002List2002Vote%Vote
Atkinson&Gilmanton Acad.Grant0000000
Bean's Grant0000000
Bean's Purchase0000000
Berlin City11872103311005212919525086375474%
Cambridge Township0010011100%
Carroll Town5286701709919646533873%
Chandler's Purchase0000000
Clarksville Town2323015521921689054%
Colebrook Town24502331516163652133163748%
Columbia Town6557401324612230019164%
Crawford's Purchase0000000
Cutt's Grant0000000
Dalton Town8239501736130453832460%
Dix's Grant0000000
Dixville Township50461309221986%
Dummer Town322345593910620413365%
Errol Town292314492016022912555%
Erving's Location0000000
Gorham Town320029004957104831688118970%
Green's Grant0000333100%
Hadley's Purchase0000000
Jefferson Town95910023319316759139968%
Kilkenny Township0000000
Lancaster Town352632808343496621845115563%
Low and Burbanks Grant0000000
Martin's Location0000000
Milan Town1252131922619631473645362%
Millsfield Township21190015151493%
Northumberland Town24922438336431473124065453%
Odell Township0000000
Pinkam's Grant1101056233%
Pittsburg Town9018723196817255932658%
Randolph Town37133698789026621581%
Sargent's Purchase0000000
Second College Grant0000000
Shelburne Town4103781015411226718369%
Stark Town5185301036413830516554%
Stewartstown Town104810121646124647120042%
Stratford Town927933938415733418455%
Success Township0000000
Thompson and Meserves Purchase0000000
Wentworth Location53492615231043%
Whitefield Town19152015520242426118874062%
TOTALS3482833111579650147071178811150464%
Note that the only and largest city, Berlin, is strongly Democrat -- but only by about a thousand voters.

Sources:
http://www.nh.gov/sos/general2002/namescoos.htm
http://mcdc.missouri.edu/placepops/NewHampshire/33007.html
http://www.state.nh.us/osp/sdc/58/Coos.htm

« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 05:26:48 pm by jnoyes »
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Dreepa

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Re: White Mountain Land Club
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2005, 10:36:26 pm »

I'm interested!
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