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Author Topic: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP  (Read 10076 times)

Condon

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2004, 08:00:53 pm »

Don't kid yourself. The dirty tricks and crooked politics engaged in today in election by Democrats so far outstrips what the Republicans do or are capable of doing, that it's not worthy of discussion. It only stands to reason: The Democrats *are* the party of government; they live it, breathe it, and live *off* of it. If they lose, they lose their very means of living; government is where their money comes from. Public employee unions. Welfare recipients. Tort lawyers. Teachers unions. These are not private companies in the free market. If you start talking bogeymen like Halliburton and Archer-Daniels-Midland...how many votes do such entities have compared to the pro-government agglomerations that the Democrats rely upon above? Comparative, zilch.
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Greenbacks

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2004, 09:25:19 pm »

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Nader is the Democrats' greatest threat

just to show you how dumb the DemoRATS and stupid the RePOOPlicans are - Nader has consistently polled 2X more support from Rs than Ds in NH for the last 5 months!

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/nh/

with Bednarik off the ballot this outcome is assured.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 09:40:32 pm by Greenbacks »
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Greenbacks

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2004, 09:34:51 pm »

are you referring to the "no bid" Halliburton company that Cheney received a 1 million dollar "deferred compensation" from while VP and the "price fixing" Archer Daniels Midland company?

Cheney:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,912515,00.html

ADM:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2004/06/17/ap1421326.html
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 09:36:15 pm by Greenbacks »
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Old Nick

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2004, 12:04:09 am »

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Don't kid yourself.

Uh, I DON'T. YOU are the one who thinks that Republicans are fu#$ing saints. I, on the other hand, hate them BOTH equally. Do you have a problem with that?


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The dirty tricks and crooked politics engaged in today in election by Democrats so far outstrips what the Republicans do or are capable of doing, that it's not worthy of discussion.

Of course. Let's just sweep it all under the rug and forget about it. Good principles there, padre.

I say that the damage to freedom conducted by BOTH the Democratic and Republican Parties is of such a drastic and convoluted nature that it is not even WORTH THE TIME to determine just who, point by point, is the absolute worst. We could actually be fighting the authoritarian forces with that time and effort, instead of bitching senselessly about who is, of all things, is BETTER! Goddamn.


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It only stands to reason

No, it only stands to the enormous amount of cognitive dissonance of which you suffer from. Maybe you should see a doctor.....


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The Democrats *are* the party of government; they live it, breathe it, and live *off* of it.

Yes, whereas the Republicans NEVER call for increases in government. Their respect for privacy rights, freedom of expression, and the seperation of church and state are legend. Hell, why do we even HAVE a Libertarian Party?!?! LET'S JUST ALL JOIN THE REPUBLICANS, YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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lose, they lose their very means of living; government is where their money comes from. Public employee unions. Welfare recipients. Tort lawyers. Teachers unions.

All very true. I do not deny a shred of this. But this makes them WORSE than the Republicans in the greater picture how?? It.. all.. washes.

Do I need to remind you that Bush, with his No Child Left Behind, provided the largest increase to the DoE's power since its foundation?? That hasn't exactly decreased the power of the teachers' unions, my friend. Sorry to shatter your world. Well, actually, I'm not, because I'm not really that compassionate...  ;)

[Edit: Yeah, yeah, I'm quite aware that Bush didn't work alone. It took Congress, and alot of that was from Democrats, who supported it fervently- including John Kerry, which is yet another reason to despise that socialist pig. But so did many REPUBLICANS, and I am not going to waste my time in trying to compare the two parties so as to determine who is the "lesser evil". Fu#$ that.]

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These are not private companies in the free market.

Wow! Want to state any OTHER obvious facts?? Like the earth is round and revolves around the sun?? I GET IT. The Democrats are socialist assholes. When have I EVER denied that?!

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start talking bogeymen like Halliburton and Archer-Daniels-Midland...how many votes do such entities have compared to the pro-government agglomerations that the Democrats rely upon above? Comparative, zilch.

So again it's all insignificant. Just ignore it all, because the DEMOCRATS are worse. I realize they've got things unique to them [or at least almost so] that the Republicans don't have. But to people like you that just erases everything that's bad about the GOP, because they're a little bit "better" [although you, of course, sing their praises]. How about some money for Bush's temple, eh?? Don't wanna contribute?!?! DETAIN HIM NOW, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW!!! Hahahaha....

What can I say? I'm a funny guy...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2004, 01:02:00 am by Old Nick »
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God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East."
-- George W. Bush to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, July 2003

Condon

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2004, 10:06:22 am »

Actually Old Nick, I don't think you're a funny guy. I think you suffer from what so many libertarians suffer from. You're so eager to prove your radical bona fides---and perhaps catch a kind word or two from the fashionable political left in the process---that you ignore rather obvious facts. Here. Let me help you. Take a look at the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance's voting records of all state house members: http://nhliberty.org/2004Index/2004hbrankgrade.htm. The FIRST Democrat, going from high scorers down to collectivist/statists is #152, with a "D" grade. That means out of 400 state representatives, 151 Republicans vote more in favor of what you supposedly believe in than ANY Democrat. Now slide on down the list. There are plenty of bad Republicans (aka RINO's), right? But where do the Democrats really start to show up? Way down at the bottom, where the "F's" reside. In the current election in New Hampshire, there are several LPNH members/activists running for the state house as Republicans. There are other full-bore libertarians running in that election who aren't LPNH members, and every one of them is a Republican.

But all that's okay. In the meantime, you say there's absolutely no difference between Republicans and Democrats. Good luck to you.

You know, I've been kind of quiet on the subject of working with Republicans to create a more libertarian Free State. I think I'll start speaking up  more. The Republicans have a visible libertarian presence in the party, led by Ron Paul and others: See www.rlc.org. I urge every Porcupine who's truly interested in creating liberty in our lifetime to consider joining the RLC (including those who are members of the Libertarian Party; you don't need to be a registered Republican to be a member of the RLC).

In the meantime, Old Nick, your well-displayed hatred may make you feel hip, cool, and pure, but in the end, it is simply stupid. I'm interested in change, real political change in the Free State. You can enjoy continuing your love affair with "equal hatred" toward the two major parties. More discerning Porcupines are going to work in whatever way seems best to make the Free State a reality.    ---Tim Condon
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Greenbacks

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2004, 11:00:30 am »

Tim-

you are making a perfect case for why the RePooplicans have more to gain by keeping Bednarik off the ballot than the DemoRats.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 11:01:35 am by Greenbacks »
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rdeacon

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2004, 09:25:17 pm »

I'm backing Greenbacks on this one.  However nice the Republicans are to Libertarians in this state, when it comes time to play ball they know the game and they play it well.  A libertarian threat of even 1 or 2% in NH could turn the tide from Bush to Kerry.  So far NH has been in play, marginalized as a swing state only because it offers a pittance of electoral college votes.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I agree with Old Nick - I smell elephant.
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Greenbacks

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2004, 09:51:19 pm »

3 smell elephants - do I hear 4?
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Tracy Saboe

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2004, 11:26:19 pm »

Quote
Nader is the Democrats' greatest threat

just to show you how dumb the DemoRATS and stupid the RePOOPlicans are - Nader has consistently polled 2X more support from Rs than Ds in NH for the last 5 months!

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/nh/

with Bednarik off the ballot this outcome is assured.

Greenback's is right. Nader -- instead of running as a Green, is running as a paleo-conservative this time around with the reform party. That he's also a socialist, is probably not much consequence to those who just hear media soundbites. They don't remember what he stood for 4 years ago.  Disenfranchised conservatives have been voting for Buchannan and the Reform party for the past three ellections.

Buchannan and Nader. Politics makes for strange bedfellows. Libertarians might actually feel more
left to people in New Hampshire then Nadar, because of social issues.

I don't know. I just know many disenfranchized Democrats are voting libertarian for President here in South Dakota because they're scared to Death of  Kerry. They didn't get Dennis Kusenidge (Who was really the only candidate wanting to cut government spending -- both social programs and military. He was more conservative then Bush.), and they're refusing to vote for Kerry. Libertarian is the only place to go for these Democrats.  I had just as many democrats (if not more) as (then) Republicans refusing to sign the ballot access petition because the Libertarian Party steal votes from their party.

Tracy
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 11:32:53 pm by Tracy Saboe »
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

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Tracy Saboe

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2004, 11:39:37 pm »

YEah, the Democrats are really really really bad.

Really Really Really Really Bad!

In Nazi Germany and Fascist Itally, the socialists were really Really REALLY really BAD[/b] TOO!

But they weren't the ones in power.

Tracy
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

Jack Conway

Conway Supports Obamacare
Conway Supports Cap and Trade
Conway Supports Abortion
Conway’s Utilities Rate Hike Scandal
Conway is in Bed with Big Pharma
Conway is Backed by Wall Street Bankers

Blefuscu

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2004, 03:00:06 am »

I side with those who smell an elephant, too.  Greenbacks, rdeacon, Old Nick, and Tracy.  Count me in.  

Tim, everything you say about Democrats is true, but if you believe that aiding and abetting Republicans will bring about a more libertarian state in New Hampshire, I believe you are very sadly mistaken.  What it will bring about is a conservative authoritarian state.  How is this better than a socialist authoritarian state?  They're both authoritarian.  

Republicans and libertarians are philosophically incompatible on all but the small government and low taxes principles.  Perhaps they are compatible when it comes to privacy, too, at least among the rank and file Republicans.  That's certainly not true, though, of Republicans of Ashcroft's ilk.  On nearly everything else, though, from foreign relations to crime and punishments to social freedoms and individual liberties, the positions of Republicans are an offense to liberty.  

Don't help those treacherous schemers.  Forget about fusion.  That's a trap that mainly serves Republican interests.  What Libertarians and liberty lovers in NH need to do is to promote Libertarian candidates at all levels of government, including Governor.   The folly of forsaking this tactic is clear.  In my opinion, libertarians getting in bed with Benson has led to complacency among NH Libertarians sufficient to allow them to fall asleep at the wheel.  No alert third party political organization, for example, would have trusted their ballot petitions to sail through the system without being subject to skullduggery and machinations by acolytes of the parties of treason.  Shirk your responsibility to the Libertarian party, and this is what you get.  

Principles are important.  
« Last Edit: October 02, 2004, 03:14:16 am by Blefuscu »
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rdeacon

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2004, 03:11:26 pm »

Okay, while I agree that the Republicans are behind this, I don't agree with your solution.  As I am not affiliated with the LP I can't really speak from the perspective of someone who's looking out for the best interests of the LP, but here's my take on the situation:

The Republicans in NH are good people.  Benson is a great governor, and a large number of House Republicans are good for NH also.  If the Republicans are behind the LP's failure to get ballot access then it's sad, but it doesn't change the fact that Republicans are a valuable asset.

The LP shouldn't walk away from this thinking:
"Republicans suck I'm never talking to them again".  They need to learn from this experience and move forward.  This is politics, and the LP just learned another rule in the political game.  Supporting the Republicans through fusion and selective non-competition is still a viable tactic for the LP, but the LP needs to keep an eye on its allies.
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Blefuscu

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2004, 04:12:02 pm »

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Statement of Intent

I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.

I don't think this describes the intent of the Republican party much more than it does the Democrats.  A little, perhaps, but not much.
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rdeacon

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2004, 06:45:18 pm »

The intent of the Republican Party is irrelevant.  At this point they are the best tool to reduce government as they, in NH, are still the party of smaller government.

The FSP in NH will play out like a game of chess, not a standoff on a battlefield.  The Republicans are not our finishing move, but they are a great opening.
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Blefuscu

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Re: Benson can't exactly count on Concord's GOP
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2004, 09:05:44 pm »

I do understand your argument, Justin.  I just don't agree with it.  
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"Man will never be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last Priest" - Denis Diderot
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