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Author Topic: Problems with all voting  (Read 12582 times)

phylinidaho

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2002, 12:02:50 am »

The thing that concerns me is that I have a sense from reading all of the discussion  that the real choice is between MT/ID/WY on the one hand and NH on the other. The most likely outcome is that NH has the potential of winning the vote even if it is the 4th choice of most participants.

Consider this scenario: Say that among 5,000 members, 2,000 want to opt for the East Coast. They would know that their best bet is to cast their 10 votes for NH. Say that the other 3,000 want to opt for the West, but it is unclear whether MT, ID or WY has the best chance of winning, and most of the participants don't have a clear favoriite, knowing that whichever is chosen, they will have the support of the other two. As a result, the vote is split in some fashion, so that MT, ID & WY each receive 1,000 vptes. Thus NH would be the winner even though it was the 4th choice of a majority.

Does this mean we should vote for a region before narrowing it to a state?
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Elizabeth

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2002, 12:22:10 am »

Hi Phyllis!  Good to see you on the forum.

I would tend to think that what it means is that the pro-western factions would need to form an alliance and agree to all cast votes for a single state in the west.  I would imagine that wouldn't be too hard to do in the face of *gasp* having to move to the northeast ...  ;)
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2002, 10:47:15 am »

I don't know, I think we can get big pro-Vermont and pro-Delaware factions going.  But if they don't, I suppose NH isn't so bad for Westerners as typically they say that's the only Eastern state they'd be willing to move to. ;)
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Eddie_Bradford

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2002, 03:19:25 pm »


Hi Phyllis!  Good to see you on the forum.

I would tend to think that what it means is that the pro-western factions would need to form an alliance and agree to all cast votes for a single state in the west.  I would imagine that wouldn't be too hard to do in the face of *gasp* having to move to the northeast ...  ;)



Ha ha!  Now doing this is what I've been talking about and now this system is not better than the regular voting for one choice.  But imagine if the Westerners could vote a 'strongly approve' for their favorite, 'approve' for the other two western states, and 'strongly dissaprove' for NH that way they can express thier true opinion without diluting their vote.
-Eddie
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cdbern_99

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2002, 03:33:06 am »

Our Founding Fathers had it easy, there was only one America to choose from.  

They had the pioneering spirit that has been bred out of us.  Go where you preceive the challange to be the greatest and adapt.  Create the world you want to live in and pass on to future generations.  Politics et. al. is what has gotten us to where we are today.  Slavery.

Vote Alaska.  ;D

All in favor say "aye".

Results:
Ayes - 20,000   Nayes - 0
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marciesmom

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2002, 07:47:25 am »

I'm in favor of a vote of east vs. west, then settle which state.  Or maybe cdbern and wayimp can go to Alaska on their own, since they seem to be set on those states  ;D
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Otosan

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2002, 11:00:13 am »

Since "the South" is not even a choice, either choice (east/west) is a move to a "cold Yankee" state.
But which every is selected, I am ready to move.
Lets quite squabbling over which state, select one and lets us get moving.
There are alot of things that will need to be done after the state is selected.
IMHO there  will be a need for an "advance party" to go there to get things ready for the others. (Maybe the local LP party can help?)
When we move there, we will still need to follow the existing laws, and for some of us who  need "state licenses" to work in our professional fields, we will need time to get the licenses and such.  Shutting down a business and moving will take time.
;D
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Eddie_Bradford

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2002, 03:53:29 am »

Back to what  Phyllis said.  I think he's right I think probably the vote will come down to those 3 in the west and Delaware and NH in the east.  I'm quite concerned that we will have a vote between say DE. NH, and Idaho and the east coast guys split thier vote and the west coast guys all vote for Idaho.  At the same time like Phyllis said it could happen to the West coast guys where they have 2-3 choices and the east coast guys onely have one.  I think ultimately I'd like there to be a final vote between one east cost and one west coast that way we don't have to worry about wether to all concentrate our votes on one state on our prefered side of the country.  I really like DE and NH, and I think the West coast guys would like NH better because of the extremely low population density in some areas.
-Eddie
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SnowDog

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2002, 07:08:57 am »

Why not hold the vote using the method listed at www.fairvote.org? The way it works is that each state is ranked by the voter, from 1 to (the total number of states). Then, if the winning states does not get a majority, the bottom state is dropped, and those that chose the bottom state as their primary choice, then have their 2ND choice applied to the remaining states, and the votes are recounted. This process continues until one state has a majority. (If someone's 2ND choice has already been eliminated, then his 3RD choice is applied. Likewise, down the line, as states are dropped.)

Here's a flash demo:

http://www.chrisgates.net/irv/

Craig (Houston)


« Last Edit: August 14, 2002, 07:12:34 am by SnowDog »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Problems with all voting
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2002, 10:34:16 pm »

CC is just like IRV except that it takes into account strength of preference, which is a good thing. :)

I think I favor reducing the choice to 3 Western states, 3 Eastern states, and 1 Midwestern state.  That's how the data are breaking down right now, anyway.  Delaware is a strong contender vis-a-vis NH, and so is Vermont.  It's leftist, but the population is so dang small, and job prospects are better than Wyoming.  Anyway, what I think we should do if we narrow it down is to have Research Committee members write a final report for each state as an advocacy piece.  So the NH supporter(s) write a piece supporting NH; the ID supporter(s) write a piece supporting ID; the AK supporter(s) write a piece supporting AK; and so on.  We mail the final reports along with the ballot for the membership vote.

That way each state will be viewed on a relatively equal footing, and the votes should be spread around appropriately (no strategic voting).
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism
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