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Author Topic: Security Concerns  (Read 10786 times)

Zack Bass

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2003, 09:25:16 pm »


Rank the following actions in order if impact.

1) Sign a petition
2) Cast a ballot
3) Donate 2% of your income to political candidate/causes
4) Spend 30% of your disposable income in a State
5) Buy real esate in the State (worth 5x your annual income)
6) Start a business in the state
7) Employ 100 other people in the State
(8) Employ 10,000 people in the State


I will rank them, not in order of "impact", but in order of helping Freedom:

(1) Some
(2) Some
(3) A fair amount
(4) None
(5) None
(6) None
(7) None
(8) None

The Impact of simply spending your money there, or employing people there, is not different from the Impact a Statist would have who did the same thing.

<<Note:  8_)  is a Smilie; and "disable Smilies" doesn't work.>>

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Adam Selene

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2003, 09:46:58 pm »

The Impact of simply spending your money there, or employing people there, is not different from the Impact a Statist would have who did the same thing.

No, because your doing so for a reason -- the freedom that exists there today and/or may exist there in the near future. You need to be equally willing to withdraw such support and move someplace else.

We're talking about States with relatively small economies.

This phenomenon is easily visible if you look at the booms and busts of offshore domiciles. Costa Rica and Dominican Republic have had amazing booms due to foreign residents and foreign-owned businesses, yet those people do not vote. They came for certain freedoms and "laxness"; and that they may leave is not a political non-factor.

One of the most important elements moderating governments today is the mobility of people, money and businesses; competition between jurisdictions and regulatory arbitrage. Why do you think the EU/OECD is trying so hard to eliminate "harmful tax competition"?

You honestly claim that the loss of tourism would have no impact on whether Las Vegas outlawed gambling, or that there would be no similar dynamics in the Free State; particularly after certain milestones are acheived? Or that the local populace (statist as they may be) would not fight to protect freedoms from which they see a visible benefit to the economy and their own pocketbooks?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2003, 09:54:00 pm by Adam Selene »
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Zack Bass

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2003, 10:24:33 pm »


You honestly claim that the loss of tourism would have no impact on whether Las Vegas outlawed gambling


What effect would increased tourism have on whether Las Vegas legalized Prostitution?
What effect would increased tourism have on whether Las Vegas legalized Drugs?

What effect would loss of tourism have on whether Holland outlawed Prostitution?
What effect would loss of tourism have on whether Holland outlawed Dope?

What effect would increased tourism have on whether Saudi Arabia legalized alcohol?

Economic factors are not the only ones driving Laws.

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MajesticLeo

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2003, 07:16:59 am »


I have better things to do with my time than get into flame wars with someone who failed to read my posts.

However, Herbalist, there are still many ways to participate. Move to the target state, create jobs, donate money, finance venture startups, recruit other members, etc. IMHO this type of activism is worth 100x what your vote or name on a petition is worth.


Have no desire to enter "flame wars" either,(and I did read all your posts)

 Thank you for finally answering my simple question (even if you did answer it to Herbalist) about what actions you intend to use to effect change.   Now I know, you are going there and spend money.   Thats all I wanted to know.
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Adam Selene

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2003, 05:54:00 pm »

Now I know, you are going there and spend money.   Thats all I wanted to know.

I didn't say that either, but whatever.

To claim that the only way people can promote economic and social freedom in the State is to put their name on a petition, ballot or member list, is not only to be completely devoid of imagination, but is rather insulting.

Would you tell Herbalist and her husband, don't bother moving to the State, because you can't possibly have any positive impact unless you register for FSP and vote?
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WalterGR

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2003, 02:43:50 pm »


If you're really concerned about this your best bet is to start hitting the range at least once per week and to buy more ammo and other gear.   Why hide under the bed when you can get ready to bury the enemy, IF (and it's pretty unlikely) they initiate force against you?


When was the last time that worked?
(Not that I think it's wrong; only futile and counterproductive.)



Athens, TN - August 1 & 2, 1945.
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SteveA

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Re:Security Concerns
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2003, 12:51:14 am »

Adam has some good thoughts here that I know Ayn Rand was promoting.

He's talking about being free, not trying to become free.  In reality we are all truly free.  We can make any decisions we want and act accordingly.  I think it even says such in the Declaration of Independence.  If we believe we are controlled by government and act accordingly then for all intents and purposes we are enslaved.  From that point of view, the FSP is about reducing the level of "thuggery" in our society.  If noone knew about paying income tax and someone came up to your door one day and said - you owe us $27,000 + fines + interest = a whole ton of money, you'd probably tell the guy he was crazy.  If he came back with a gun and threatened you to work for him as compensation (I'm bypassing the fiat money) he would quickly find a lot of angry people and not much luck collecting.  Yes, sometimes people die but that's what the Founders fought for.  There is crime and sometimes that crime is declared legal by a few individuals and we have become accustomed to accepting it as truth.

The truth is that for every act of violence and destruction commited by the government there is a large backlash, greater than what gains were attempted to be collected originally.  The system cannot sustain itself if people "opt out" of the game.  So effectively everyone that decides not to live by perceived threats indirectly is freeing others.  I think most here would agree that if everyone joined the FSP, such "slavery" would evaporate but it is because of individuals freeing themselves mentally and not becoming a participant in seeking control of others.  It's all in the mind and the sooner people realize what the rules of the game are, the sooner we all win.  In a sense you could say that government does not truly control us.  It can be viewed as inidividuals using force to control others and most the controlled individuals accept it as the natural order of things.

I assume this resembles what you were expecting to see:

1) Sign a petition - spend a small amount of time acknowledging you are a slave
2) Cast a ballot - spend a little time picking a new master
3) Donate 2% of your income to political candidate/causes - 2% of your effort enslaved.
4) Spend 30% of your disposable income in a State - Accepting trade between individuals to (hopefully) benefit both of you.
5) Buy real esate in the State (worth 5x your annual income) - If done through a fiat money loan then the owner is willing to accept paper for real property and then hoping the bank will print more money so you give it back to them to keep the property.  If the trade is done between individuals using items of value then you will hopefully both benefit.
6) Start a business in the state - Ignoring taxes you are likely attempting to increase your quality of life by creating a framework that increases your productivity.
7) Employ 100 other people in the State - Same as start business but now you are influencing the efficiency of human endeavor of 100 people.
Employ 10,000 people in the State - Ditto but for 10,000 people.
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Osborn F. Enready

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Homeland Security
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2004, 01:15:18 am »

     The following is a post I put in another forum I thought most of you may find interesting. ;)

Homeland Security
I thought some of you guys might enjoy some of these examples of "security" that the government sees fit to spend our tax money on.
This information is directly from "Wired" magazine February 2004 issue.

The Bastard Children of Total Informational Awareness (TIA)


Congress killed TIA (Total Informational Awareness), Darpa's far flung effort to comb databases in search of terrorists. But that doesn't mean the authorities are finished sorting through the records of Americans to expose "evil-doers". Some analysts think bits of TIA still exist on the covert "black" side of the Pentagons ledger. Here, with text straight out of government and corporate documents, are a few of the unclassified efforts:

CAPPS II (Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System)
*OVERLORD: Transportation Security Administration
*FUNCTION: Compares "passenger records... against commercial databases" as well as government information and "national security information" to see if a traveler has links to terrorist organizations.
*STATUS: Active


MATRIX (Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange)
*OVERLORD: Law enforcement agencies in Florida, and seven other states, funded by the U.S. Department of Justice.
*FUNCTION: Integrates criminal history and "PUBLIC DATA" to find evidence of terrorist activity. Much of the data is kept by Seisint, whose founder was implicated in a 1980's drug ring.
*STATUS: Active


mohoClassifier
*OVERLORDS: Kofax Image Products, for the CIA and other national security organizations.
*FUNCTION: Identifies "events/trends/warning signals" in "Web pages, news articles,e-mail, and other electronic documents."
*STATUS: Active


NORA (Non-Obvious Relatioship Awareness)
*OVERLORD: Systems Research and Development, a CIA-funded firm, for unspecified "government customers"
*FUNCTION: Cross-references multiple databases to "identify potentially alarming non-obvious relationships among and between individuals and companies."
*STATUS: Active


ACUMEN (Adaptive Concept Understanding From Modeled Enterprise Networks)
*OVERLORD: Torch Concepts
*FUNCTION: Uses "Intelligent pattern recognition" on publicly available data to spot "relationships and behaviors that may point to potential terrorist threats" and "rebel actions" near US Army bases around the world.
*STATUS: Unknown


NIMD (Novel Intelligence From Massive Data)
*OVERLORD: Advanced Research and Development Activity (ARDA)
*FUNCTION: Scrutinizes "audio,video,tables,graphs,diagrams,images,maps,equations,chemical formulas,etc." to help government intelligence analysts see "the telltale signs of strategic suprise."
*STATUS: Unkown




Well, hope those peaked your intrest. Do you still feel your privacy is safe?????? Discuss....


Osborn F. Enready
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" A man who would trade a measure of liberty, for a measure of security, DESERVES NEITHER."

LeopardPM

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Re:Homeland Security
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2004, 01:59:15 am »

ACK!

(no intelligent response possible at this point, just plain scared)


michael
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maxtomaximum

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What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2004, 06:06:07 am »

Are the CIA and FBI watching FSP and the Forum? :o :o
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lloydbob1

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Re:What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2004, 07:18:43 am »

Probably not the CIA.  We are not the business of the FBI either as we are not breaking any laws, but, internal spying and record keeping of all political organizations  became the norm under J. E. Hoover and continues to this day.
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jgmaynard

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Re:What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2004, 08:05:24 am »

Are the CIA and FBI watching FSP and the Forum? :o :o

Wouldn't suprise me a bit if they were...... Matter of fact, I would be very suprised if they weren't.

So what?

We're not doing anything illegal. The worst they have to worry about from us will be NH opting out of a lot of fed programs, cutting a good deal of money out for the Feds.

If the FBI/CIA/NSA/BATF etc., ARE watching us...... HI FOLKS!  ;D

JM
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FTL_Ian

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Re:What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2004, 09:43:36 am »

Attention law enforcement:



Go get a donut!



 ::)
Ian
« Last Edit: July 25, 2004, 02:15:38 pm by FTL_Ian »
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MicroBalrog

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Re:What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2004, 02:37:16 pm »



« Last Edit: July 28, 2004, 02:37:33 pm by MicroBalrog »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:What about the CIA and FBI
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2004, 09:39:04 am »

Probably some 28-year old bureaucrat who started out in private security and now is rookie investigator in a cubicle at some non-descript facility has the FSP among a list of assignments.

He's already 16 lbs. overweight and steadily increasing, has 1.5 kids, a new SUV, and just got a mortgage on a small home this last spring.  
He reports to his boss, a 56-year old divorced woman who likes to act tough and who spends half her time quietly checking on her retirement plan behind closed doors, --she proudly displays a signed administrative message from Janet Reno on her office wall.

He could care less about the FSP, and the 9 other politically-motivated action groups he is assigned to observe, but makes sure to do a thorough job of data collection, and would never admit it, but does occasionally go out of his way to highlight more spicy material on the message boards just to ensure that his assignments maintain their "code yellow" status and don't get assigned to the automated observation computer system; as he already knows his job security depends on there being an adequate supply of code-yellow groups.
He hopes to someday get promoted to grade 5 and work on "code orange" groups, but in the meantime, he must bide his time and read and record the internet chatter.  

He absolutely hates the everyday routine of his job, and sometimes dreams of becoming a field agent, which was what motivated him in the first place, but his wife wouldn't have that lifestyle, especially now with the kids.  He still remembers the excitement he had when he passed the test and formally applied with this agency with "Mission: Impossible" starring Tom Cruise, fresh on his mind.  He also enjoys telling a few select friends, who he knows at church, that he works for agency x, and thrills at seeing them intrigued.  He also feels a bit smug at packing a concealed weapon in his state, where ordinary citizens don't have the same privilege, even into his worship services where they are doubly-banned, but such is the burden of public service he decides, oh oh . . . boss alert, look busy! . . . Free State Project, 2005 1Q financial statements, hmm. . .  "good thing I took that business accounting class at my junior college . . . why does this outstanding $1400 liability keep carrying-over each quarter?  I'll make a note to investigate next quarter,  I'll quickly go see if there's any juicy info on the message board. . ."    
« Last Edit: July 29, 2004, 10:18:50 am by Kelton Baker »
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