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Author Topic: American Haters  (Read 21192 times)

Reaper

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2004, 04:48:06 pm »

If i'm not mistaken those people already want us dead. They dont like the freedoms we have, they are jealous of us

ROFL

I've seen this idiotic bushism spouted by sooo many warmongers.  It's time to lay it to rest.

I can picture it now.  Mohammed Khalid herding goats in Iraq suddenly says to himself, "These people I don't know thousands and thousands of miles away have freedom! OMG!  I must go blow myself up now!"

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friendofFSP

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2004, 05:09:22 pm »

Quote from: thegotoguy .  So, before you give the typical "rah-rah, war is great!" cheer I suggest you get off your keister and go enlist.

[quote

Thegotoguy, don't assume that you know anything about me. I did enlist the day after the first Gulf War started so I did get off my keister and enlist. So spit your jibberish at someone else.

edited to remove the word dick. Sorry.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2004, 05:44:19 pm by friendofFSP »
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thegotoguy

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2004, 05:30:42 pm »

If you did enlist - I can only assume you're telling me the truth - you at least have some credibility, as opposed to the neoconservative assholes who are running the war/propaganda effort in DC.

However, I do feel it's inappropriate to use the word "we" unless you're over there fighting.  "We" are flaming each other on an internet chat board while others are putting their lives on the line for our government.
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LeRuineur6

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2004, 05:40:31 pm »

A nation that hates itself cannot survive. A culture that hates itself cannot survive. A civilization that doubts or even rejects its right to defend itself will not last.

"My country, right or wrong!"
-Hitler's war cry.
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libertyovertyranny

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2004, 06:10:36 pm »

If i'm not mistaken those people already want us dead. They dont like the freedoms we have, they are jealous of us

Has the dislike of America's "freedoms" ever been a reason cited by terrorists for their actions?  Or do you just believe everything George Bush says?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2004, 06:11:18 pm by libertyovertyranny »
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nonluddite

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2004, 07:46:55 pm »

By the way - when did we start equating distrust of government with hating America?

No kidding.  When I have the "nerve" to defend the VOLUNTARY affirmation of flag and country, somehow me and GWB are best buds!

My guess is that they are the same people who equate government with society, i.e. the collectivists in our midst, who believe that "we" have to do something about X.
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2004, 09:50:54 pm »


Out of curiosity, what would some of you think if instead of Iraq the US had attacked Iran?

What if the President had stated in no uncertain terms that we were going to war with Iran, not for any selfless motive to "liberate" the Iranian people, but for our own self-interest - to DESTROY terrorists who want to kill us and to END the theocratic state that sponsors and harbors them?


Would you still be opposed to war?

Yes.

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thegotoguy

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2004, 08:52:43 am »

Out of curiosity, what would some of you think if instead of Iraq the US had attacked Iran?

What if the President had stated in no uncertain terms that we were going to war with Iran, not for any selfless motive to "liberate" the Iranian people, but for our own self-interest - to DESTROY terrorists who want to kill us and to END the theocratic state that sponsors and harbors them?

Would you still be opposed to war?

Bush lost any shred of credibility he had with me after his very first state of the union address.  He ran as a conservative (which I doubted at the time) and his entire address was nothing but Clinton-esque new government giveaway programs.  He then signed a gargantuan farm bill, campaign finance deform, "no child left behind", and bazillions of dollars worth of other new government BS.  

Then, 9/11 happened, and he signed the Patriot act and federalized airline security (more big government BS).  I do believe that any American president would have sent troops into Afghanistan, so I didn't have a problem with that.  Since then, though, we've had a gigantic government healthcare scam passed, not to mention all the little miscellaneous garbage that they cram into all the omnibus spending bills.

Bottom line - if the president had ANY credibility with me, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on Iraq, even if I disagreed with him.  I'm willing to support someone I agree with 80% of the time or better.  But Bush has set the conservative (let alone libertarian) agenda back at least 25 years and nobody except we libertarians and a few (very few) paleo-conservatives are calling him on it.

And - to answer your question - until such time as Bush and the GOP regains ANY credibilty with me, I will not support ANY of their war plans except those that directly target Osama Bin Laden.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 08:54:50 am by thegotoguy »
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<Patrick>

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2004, 01:18:11 pm »

Out of curiosity, what would some of you think if instead of Iraq the US had attacked Iran?

What if the President had stated in no uncertain terms that we were going to war with Iran, not for any selfless motive to "liberate" the Iranian people, but for our own self-interest - to DESTROY terrorists who want to kill us and to END the theocratic state that sponsors and harbors them?

Would you still be opposed to war?

Bush lost any shred of credibility he had with me after his very first state of the union address.  He ran as a conservative (which I doubted at the time) and his entire address was nothing but Clinton-esque new government giveaway programs.  He then signed a gargantuan farm bill, campaign finance deform, "no child left behind", and bazillions of dollars worth of other new government BS.  

Then, 9/11 happened, and he signed the Patriot act and federalized airline security (more big government BS).  I do believe that any American president would have sent troops into Afghanistan, so I didn't have a problem with that.  Since then, though, we've had a gigantic government healthcare scam passed, not to mention all the little miscellaneous garbage that they cram into all the omnibus spending bills.

Bottom line - if the president had ANY credibility with me, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on Iraq, even if I disagreed with him.  I'm willing to support someone I agree with 80% of the time or better.  But Bush has set the conservative (let alone libertarian) agenda back at least 25 years and nobody except we libertarians and a few (very few) paleo-conservatives are calling him on it.

And - to answer your question - until such time as Bush and the GOP regains ANY credibilty with me, I will not support ANY of their war plans except those that directly target Osama Bin Laden.

I see. I only ask this because Iran is a state sponsor of terrorists who have vowed to kill Americans. I see any of those who wish to kill me and everyone I love, just because I live in the United States, as an enemy who must be destroyed. Iran is an enemy of every US citizen who values his or her life.

Iraq is a messy situation. The excuses for invasion such as "liberating the Iraqi people" and "WMD," the months spent trying to get UN approval and to form a "coalition" are all examples of unprincipled and short range pragmatism. I can understand why a reasonable person might oppose war in Iraq.

However, I am sure the pacifists on the left and some libertarians would also oppose a war against Iran, which is why I asked the question. How many people would oppose a war waged in self-defense against those who want to kill us? How many people would oppose a war without fake excuses and without any attempt to court "world opinion?" How many people would oppose a war fought with the certainty that those who would kill American citizens must be annihilated? This is my real question. I’ll bet your average leftist and some libertarians would STILL oppose war.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 08:05:34 pm by <Patrick> »
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Re:American Haters
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2004, 01:20:45 pm »

When did you miss the distinction between wanting to kill you, and trying to kill you?

     It's as simple as that.  Speech ain't an initiation of force.

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<Patrick>

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2004, 01:20:50 pm »

A nation that hates itself cannot survive. A culture that hates itself cannot survive. A civilization that doubts or even rejects its right to defend itself will not last.

"My country, right or wrong!"
-Hitler's war cry.

Are you unable to distinguish between a nation founded on the principle of individual rights and a NAZI dictatorship?
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<Patrick>

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2004, 01:22:17 pm »

When did you miss the distinction between wanting to kill you, and trying to kill you?

     It's as simple as that.  Speech ain't an initiation of force.

     --Herself

Forget wanting and trying. Many of these people HAVE killed Americans.
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<Patrick>

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2004, 08:03:00 pm »


Out of curiosity, what would some of you think if instead of Iraq the US had attacked Iran?

What if the President had stated in no uncertain terms that we were going to war with Iran, not for any selfless motive to "liberate" the Iranian people, but for our own self-interest - to DESTROY terrorists who want to kill us and to END the theocratic state that sponsors and harbors them?


Would you still be opposed to war?

Yes.



May I ask what would be your reasons for opposing such a war?
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Top Dollar

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Re:American Haters
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2004, 02:10:14 am »

We have the Republicans and Democrats with their interventionist foreign policy to thank for the terrorist threat to the US.
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Re:American Haters
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2004, 09:34:21 am »

to Myself: absolutely freaking gorgeous rant. I couldn't have said it better myself, and I've tried.

It's an issue of the "We've got to do something" syndrome. This Admin has taken it to ridiculous extremes, but I seem to recall about 87 Senators - including J F'ing K voting for it. Feh, indeed!

Now, how to pound sense into 100 million American voters. In this lifetime? I have a plan, and if I could get 5,000 to sign on, it'd work. Unfortunately, I still haven't got anyone except my son on board, and the plans will take a minimum ten years to implement.

The plan is simple enough. Money talks. Lots of us FSPers are young (not me) and many of the rest are poor (like me). We've all squandered time, money and now it's just time to work and educate. So that's what I'm doing now.

Thiose who have leisure time need to spead the ideas. Those with money need to make choices to help defund our enemies, and increase our monetary base.

That's all for now.

Until again

Thomas
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