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Author Topic: The Pledge  (Read 9286 times)

Matthew

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The Pledge
« on: July 27, 2002, 12:54:11 am »

I was wondering what you guys thought of the reacent pleage of allegiance ruling...


I'm not quite sure wether it's unconstitutional or not, becasue the words "under God" dont impose a religion.  But, I definately think it should be taken out (like that'll ever happen).  I also strongly think that the pledge SHOULD be banned from public schools, not because of the "under God" part but because of the "I pledge alligiance" part.  If you want me to pledge allegiance you better not force it on me, other words its a lie.
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Eddie_Bradford

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Re:The Pledge
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2002, 12:54:35 pm »

Well I can understand people not wanting to take the pledge and that's fine.  But no one forces anyone to take it.  Most of the kids say if but you don't have to.  You could even move your mouth to the words but not say it so it doesn't look like you're not saying it (and so you won't have to deal with this 'social pressures').  Anyway point is I'll never like the Supreme Court banning words from government land or otherwise.  I think the local schools should do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't force students to do anything that might be construed as 'religious' or force tax payers to pay for something that is religious.  I say sure display the 10 commandments but don't pay for it with public money.  Hold a fund raiser or something.  You can always ignore things like this.  Also this point of view (ie I'm offended by this thing here!) could lead to all nude pictures of humans in health text books banned from school.  It could lead to religion being stricken from history books and especially pictures of religious icons.  It could make religion classes or clubs to be banned.  It could lead to getting rid of locker rooms and therfore sports or PE because someone doesn't want their kids to see other kids naked.  It goes on and on.  
-Eddie
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Mike R.

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Re:The Pledge
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2002, 07:13:00 pm »

 I think it's an effort that is too little too late. If it is unconstitutional, it should have been contended with nearly 50 years ago when Congress injected "under God" into the pledge. All it is now is political correctness.
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Mega Joule

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Re:The Pledge
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2002, 03:57:10 am »


Well I can understand people not wanting to take the pledge and that's fine.  But no one forces anyone to take it.  Most of the kids say if but you don't have to.  

How many kids do you think knowthey don't have to say it?  If you are trained every day in school from the time you are 5 or 6 years old to say the pledge, you willsay the pledge because you won't know any better.
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You could even move your mouth to the words but not say it so it doesn't look like you're not saying it (and so you won't have to deal with this 'social pressures').  

The pressure should not be there in the first place.
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Anyway point is I'll never like the Supreme Court banning words from government land or otherwise.  

Why not?  Government added the "under God" themselves so why shouldn't they take it out?
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I think the local schools should do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't force students to do anything that might be construed as 'religious' or force tax payers to pay for something that is religious.   say sure display the 10 commandments but don't pay for it with public money.  Hold a fund raiser or something.  You can always ignore things like this.

I agree with this as long as they are private schools.  If they are government (public) schools religious displays might be problematic.  However, in a strict sense, there is no constitutional reason why there could not be such a display, as the separation of church and state refers to the establish of a state sponsored church not individual expression or practice of religion.  Of course if you are going to allow the ten commandments to be displayed you must also be willing to permit the display of the Jewish Star of David, the Wiccan pentagram, a picture of the Dalai Lama or the Wheel of Samsara, or any other religious symbols one can think of (which is perfectly okay with me but maybe not with everyone).
 

Mega Joule
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Eddie_Bradford

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Re:The Pledge
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2002, 09:02:25 am »

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The pressure should not be there in the first place.


It's impossible to tell what is going to pressure someone to do something or not.  The old tattered school building might 'pressure' a kid to accept old out dated tackey 70's color schemes and cause serious harm to his fashion sense for the rest of his life.  Kid's shouldn't be 'pressured' to wear ripped jeans but they are so what you can't micromanage someone's life.

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Anyway point is I'll never like the Supreme Court banning words from government land or otherwise.  

Why not?  Government added the "under God" themselves so why shouldn't they take it out?

I think it would be fine, no wait I take it back, I think it would be great if the legislator did take "under God" out.
I don't think the Supreme's should though.

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Of course if you are going to allow the ten commandments to be displayed you must also be willing to permit the display of the Jewish Star of David, the Wiccan pentagram, a picture of the Dalai Lama or the Wheel of Samsara, or any other religious symbols one can think of (which is perfectly okay with me but maybe not with everyone).

This is absolutely okay with me.  The community should decide to put up whatever they want.

(Off Topic) Privatizing all school is something that the mainstream is not even close to accepting as a viable solution so I think maybe this would be a good way of explaining in a way they might understand.

"A power that has ultimate control and decision making power over you, but is kept in check by its subjects should NOT also be the entity that teaches your children."

Well okay it needs work but you get my point.  You know I specifically remeber my government textbook (public school) teaching us that the power to rule first comes from the people and then to the Federal government.  The Feds then 'give' some of this power to the states.  It said that some people used to think that people gave power to the state and then to the F.G. but that this was wrong and untrue.  It even had this whole crappy analogy.  
-Eddie
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debra

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Re:The Pledge
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2002, 12:05:44 pm »


 Of course if you are going to allow the ten commandments to be displayed you must also be willing to permit the display of the Jewish Star of David, the Wiccan pentagram, a picture of the Dalai Lama or the Wheel of Samsara, or any other religious symbols one can think of (which is perfectly okay with me but maybe not with everyone).
 

Mega Joule


Heh - I've often used this argument as well.

I envision a hallway with plaques - starts with the 10 Commandments (Judeo-Christian), a pentagram (pagan), a buddha relief (buddists), etc. etc. At the end of the row is a plaque with a question mark (agnostics), followed by a blank plaque (atheists).... :)

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