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Author Topic: Mormons are important in Wyoming  (Read 4097 times)

onyx_goddess

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Mormons are important in Wyoming
« on: June 03, 2003, 12:47:46 pm »

I was thinking about Wyoming and Idaho and Mormons.
Idaho gets a lot of negative points for having too many Mormons, but I'd like to take the question a bit further and ask "How many is too many?"

Let me start by telling of my experience.  I am a Mormon who used to live in Hawaii.  Hawaii is of course extremely liberal, which is "good" in some ways and "bad" in others.  In any case, when the proposal came up that Hawaii voters should vote whether the congress should hvae the right to ammend the constitution to define marriage as heterosexual, of course there was quite a controversy.  Now, remembering that Hawaii is extremely liberal you'd think it would have been an open and shut case, but in fact, the voters chose to allow congress that right - effectively a vote putting the public stamp of approval on the heterosexual definition of marriage.  I'm not going to claim that Mormons did it, but I will say that at church every Mormon was asked to volunteer at phone banks organized by local and national groups.  And, every Mormon was asked to vote on the issue as well.  It was a trivial thing for the Mormon leadership to put into motion because Mormons are extremely organized.  Hawaii's Mormon population percentage is less than Idaho but more than Wyoming.

So, lets say for fun, that Wyoming is chosen as the Free State.  Lets also simplify and say that there end up being an equal number of active Free Staters and Mormons in Wyoming when all is said and done.  Well, that could be an interesting run off, but I'd place my bet on the Mormons when it comes to "moral" issues, especially considering Wyoming is already predisposed to be conservative on those issues.

That said, I still prefer Wyoming.  My reasoning is simple.  When Free Staters start to take action, they will have to pick their battles, and they will have to pick a tone.  My prefered battles and tone revolve around economic freedom issues without focussing on the moral freedom issues.  Which doesn't mean I don't support libertarian moral freedom - I do.  But we all have "pet" issues, and none of those are mine.  Baby steps, gradually moving towards complete freedom (in our lifetime!)

Full disclosure - I'm not a signed up member.  I'm working on it, but I'm not quite there.
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Eddie Willers

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2003, 01:49:07 pm »

The only problem I have with Mormons is the same problem I have with all other "oppressed minorities" around the globe. As soon as they're in power, they do the exact same thing to others as was done to them.

If you're not Mormon, you get second consideration for work and business - regardless of competence.

'nuff said.

Eddie
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Radar

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2003, 02:04:44 pm »

I grew up in Las Vegas which is infested with Mormons.  They run Vegas with an iron fist.  And the funny part is you'll find Mormons working in the casino business around alcohol, gamblers, prostitutes...ooops Vegas doesn't have prostitutes.  They've got triple X rated naked dancers that come directly to your hotel room.

I lost a job once because I was telling a Mormon joke to the casino manager who it turned out was Mormon.

Less Mormons = More chance for freedom in my book.
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onyx_goddess

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2003, 02:58:01 pm »

Of course my point wasn't to start slamming Mormons with anecdotes.
My point was that FSP is trying to obtain a critical mass of political activity, and Mormons already realize that 5% of a population can get a lot done.

However, I feel compelled to point out that libertarians should support the practices both of you are describing - the right for employers to hire and fire employees based on whatever criteria they see fit.
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BobW

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2003, 02:59:58 pm »

Hi Radar,

I'm a duel-hatted emissary for both Judith Martin (Miss Manners) and the High Holy Church of the Painful Truth (The Honorable Neil Boortz, officiating)

With this preface, may I highlight that the place is not "infested".

I thought politicans sought all votes.

BobW
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Robert H.

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2003, 01:55:12 am »

Of course my point wasn't to start slamming Mormons with anecdotes.
My point was that FSP is trying to obtain a critical mass of political activity, and Mormons already realize that 5% of a population can get a lot done.

FSP'ers would be around 5% of the voting population in Wyoming as well.  In fact, those numbers would nearly give us enough to put an initiative on the ballot in Wyoming by ourselves (according to the 2002 election returns).

Mountain Troll

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2003, 07:15:25 am »

Let's face it: no matter where we go, there's going to be organized opposition.  We'll just have to out-organize and out-argue them.  If we can't, we don't deserve to win.  We've got to EARN freedom, moving to the Free State's just the minimum down payment.
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Dalamar49

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2003, 10:00:15 am »

 We've got to EARN freedom, moving to the Free State's just the minimum down payment.

That's pretty catchy Mountain Troll. Only the down payment.....

Although Mormons can be opposed to freedom some really support it. In Nevada the third largest party is the Independent American Party, which mostly consists of Mormons. The IAP is almost as Libertarian as the Libertarian Party. Their leader, Janine Hansen, is a staunch supporter of freedom. They even believe in ending the drug war!....on the federal scale at least. So Mormons might even be a plus to the FSP.
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onyx_goddess

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2003, 10:06:39 am »

Good points Troll.

I'd like to add that maybe instead of trying to "out-organize and out-argue" established, well-oiled "opposition" groups, we could focus our energy where it would stand the most chance of succeeding and providing the most freedom.
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onyx_goddess

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2003, 10:10:41 am »

Quote
Mormons might even be a plus to the FSP.

I hope so.  I think the problem won't be Mormons who don't want freedom - (really, that's pretty sweeping), it's Mormons who don't understand the need for CERTAIN freedoms.

For example, if there are 5% Mormons, and 5% Free Staters (in Wyoming), it might be fighting a losing battle to try to legalize prostitution right off the bat.  However, reducing Federal involvement in some other specific issue might be more interesting to Mormons.
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Zxcv

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2003, 02:03:51 am »

Quote
In any case, when the proposal came up that Hawaii voters should vote whether the congress should hvae the right to ammend the constitution to define marriage as heterosexual

That's one of those damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't issues.

One hopes if the subject comes up in our state, we will put it such that freedom-lovers actually have an alternative to vote for. For example, an initiative that "government is not in the business of defining marriage".
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onyx_goddess

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2003, 06:41:10 pm »

One thing I will say for Hawaii - two elections ago there was a Libertarian candidate that was present at quite a few of the governor "debates".  He was a nobody (a newspaper editor from Molokai if I remember correctly) and everyone kept wondering why he was there.  Anyway, to the point, when asked about the homosexual marriage issue he replied more or less like what you just said - the government shouldn't be in the business of selling marriage licenses (or something).  Everyone just looked at him blankly, and the moderator was like ok..... now for the next question.
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SethA

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Re:Mormons are important in Wyoming
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2003, 11:58:58 am »

Historically the LDS Church has not been well served by state government. They were not protected against violence in Missouri and Illinois where the states allowed them to be forcibly evicted from their homes by mobs. Some of their leaders were murdered while in state custody. This has resulted in a strong doctrine of self reliance and a strong church organization; although it is also worth noting that there is no professional clergy in the LDS Church.

I think if approached positively many Mormons can be an allies.
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