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Author Topic: Excellent article on American Education  (Read 11857 times)


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Re: Excellent article on American Education
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2005, 08:30:42 am »

Brian, in a Democracy the voters can change any or all members of the Board of Education to improve the schools. 
Or to abolish it entirely-- why settle for mediocrity when they can KEEP their money and purchase excellence for less?
People do have the money for private education because private schools are opening up all over America. 

This is HARDLY the point of what I'm saying; the mainstream public is only continuing to PAY for public schools, because they think it's a better deal for the money than private schools. And they think this, again, because it's a horrible LIE created by the system. In reality, they're paying MORE for public schools than they would for private, out of their personal incomes.

If they want to spend more money for private schools than before, great-- they can afford even BETTER private schools once they're no longer paying for public schools as well.

Where there is heavy poverty, many corporations are funding these private schools or helping out funding of Charter schools.  Those schools will work if the parents work at it.

Great-- but we're talking Riverdale High, not the Bronx Zoo. Why put the MAINSTREAM on the public dole? Makes no sense-- unless there's the perception that it's a better deal.
Therefore again, the solution is to EXPOSE this perception as an illusion.

Sadly most Americans are not educated well enough to understand the situation and will always insist that the government make the improvements to the system.  NO!! That is absolutely the worst thing to ask. 

"Improving" the public school system, is like re-arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic-- you have to ABANDON SHIP! There's NO way to save it-- there never WAS! IT CAN'T WORK!

The problem Brian, is that the Federal Government  sets mandates for all public schools and these mandates never improve the academics but develop administtrations.  Private schools put the tuition into the students themselves and many of these schools start in somebody's garage or basement. 

The problem, is that you're placing blame on individuals rather than economics. Private schools get paid to produce RESULTS- public ones get paid to produce good intentions. Ergo, if you want results, you must abolish public schools in favor of private.

We must focus on the purpose of these schools.  Are they done for the social development of the children or are they done for academic training?  If you go back to the early days of American schools and read some of the books we have mentioned here, you will see that those one room schools focused on academics and survival skills.  The kids only attended school about 3 to 4 hours a day because they had work to do at home or on the ranch or even in a manufacturing plant.  These kids knew their future depended on their academic training because if they didn't work, they didn't eat.

"WE" mustn't do ANYTHING. It should be left up to the parents-- and I think they'd agree in most cases. However public schools are wasteful,  but present the illusion of efficiency from the parent's perspective.
The solution, then, is to expose this myth based on hard facts and figures.

The FSP is based on libertarian ideas of individuality.  You seem to want a collectivist attitude within their schools.  Their whole purpose of the FSP is to train the next generation to live away from government programs and develop their own.  Is it that you don't understand this?
Where on EARTH do you get that notion? The purpose of the FSP is to get the government OUT of the brainwashing business-- not USURP its role in such!
I want an END to ALL government schools-- PERIOD, NOW AND FOREVER.

If the parents want to prioritize their money to pay for private education, what is it to you?  Millions of Americans are working 2 jobs to do this and their kids understand the sacrifice and work with them with eagerness. 

Millions? As in one million, and another million?
Houston, you have a problem: there are THREE HUNDRED MILLION Americans, and 86% of them use PUBLIC schools; obviously they seem to think there's a benefit to keeping the system-- or at least they see no ADVANTAGE to changing it. The key, then, is to SHOW them the advantage.
And to do this, you gotta SHOW THEM THE MONEY.

When we lived in Encino California, our tuition for our daughter was $2K per year.  My property taxes in our home showed $2K taken out of our taxes for public school.    Now that was a shock to me because the quality of the education between the two systems was great. 

THIS is what I'm TALKING about, regarding parents living under the ILLUSION that public schools are "less expensive than private."

Sandy, I don't know if you've ever studied economics, but is that ALL you think REALLY came out of your pocket to pay for "tuition" for that school--  your PROPERTY TAXES ALONE? And ONLY while your kid(s) were in school-- not before they attended, or after graduation?

Think again: those schools didn't cost any paltry 2k total/year for all the kids you had in them (or one-- your payment would be the same). Likewise, you don't pay property-taxes only while your kids are in school! You pay them till you DIE!

If you cared to add up EVERYTHING you spent that went towards that "tuition--" from all your other taxes, higher prices you paid on your purchases due to tax-expenses on business, your higher mortgage, higher rent, higher whatever-- taken over your LIFETIME and accounting for interest-expenses-- it would come to a good deal MORE than an equal-quality education purchased in a system of ONLY private schools.

Reality-check here:  Do you REALLY think that all costs spent on your kids, in excess of a measly $2k/year for ALL the kids you had in the system,  was a GIFT from the good "government-fairy?" The first rule of economics is something called TANSTAAFL: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." And that goes for SCHOOL lunches as well. YOU paid for all of that-- or at least will continue doing so for the rest of your days. Yeah, it's true-- and it's certainly MORE than you would have paid in an entirely private system where no public schools existed.

I can't believe you are a part of FSP thinking as you do about individual education for the kids.  I can only hope you attend all the Board of  Education meetings and become familiar with how your local schools are allocating the tax money into the education of the kids. 

If that's how you think, I don't have ANY hope-- you want a public solution to a private problem. They're YOUR kids- YOU had them, so it's YOUR job to provide for them, education and all-- NO ONE ELSE's. That's responsibility.
However on the other side, it's your right to CHOOSE that education-- NO ONE ELSE'S; that's called FREEDOM.
And freedom and responsibility go hand-in-hand.

I don't CARE how public schools are "allocating the tax money into the education of the kids--" because I don't WANT public schools allocating ANY tax money into ANY education of kids! They have NO BUSINESS doing that-- not one penny, not one child. Government should be in the business of securing rights, not educating children as it sees fit. That's a PARENT'S job-- ALONE.
You might think "it takes a village to raise a child--" but that's just a saying; in reality, the other villagers are busy with their own lives. And the more kids that are raised by villages, the more village idiots you get.

And THAT is a true FSP perspective; I don't know what you think the FSP is all about, but it's NOT about finding better ways for the government to spend the people's money. Government is best, that governs the least.
And in an all-private school system, you don't NEED to attend board-meetings, due to ANOTHER rule of economics: the customer is always right.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 11:58:20 am by BrianMcCandliss »


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Re: Excellent article on American Education
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2005, 12:28:29 pm »

Many people believe that because someone else is footing the bill at least they personally are still getting a good deal but it's only a short run gain and long term losses.
Actually there is NO short-term gain! That's what I'm trying to GET ACROSS.
Consider the following: John and Mary have an average income, and the average number of kids.
They send their kids to public school, which costs X number of dollars.
John and Mary might think that they're only paying Y dollars as shown by their school-property taxes; but they DON'T notice the following:

1.Increased income and sales-taxes: Local, state and federal taxes all go to subsidize schools, and these each are increased accordingly.
2.  Increased prices on purchases of goods and services: every business must also pay school-taxes, in addition to increased taxes above-- and these likewise are increased accordingly.
3. Various other increases: other various bills are all increased to pay for public schools.

When these and other various school-subsidies are added up over their lifetimes, John and Mary would realize that they're paying for EVERY PENNY of the government money spent on behalf of their children.

Now consider a privatized alternative, in which no public schools exist:

John and Mary enroll their children in a private school of their choice; for the sake of this example, the school is of equal quality to the public school. They arrange private long-term financing for it, just as they would for a car or mortgage etc.; for the sake of this argument, they roll it over to be repaid over the course of their lifetime.

As a result, they end up with LOWER monthly payments, than their total monthly payments would have been for a public school education. As a result, they end up with more money, AND more satisifed of getting a quality education for their children.

Thus we see that, in reality, public schools are MORE expensive than private schools for the average parent in the short AND long-term-- in fact, it's impossible to be otherwise, since the public sector is inherently inefficient.

I want to make a point here, that when I say "average," I don't just mean if you added up everyone; this could very well mean that the top 10% are paying for the bottom 90, who get a net benefit.
No, I mean that the MAJORITY of taxpayers are being ripped off by public schools, as compared to a system of all-private ones.

Once this is shown to them, there will be no reason NOT to vote to abolish all public schools.

For this reason, the best strategy would be to compare the SHORT-term costs of public vs. equal-quality private schools, for the majority of parents.
This simply needs an official study and report by reputable cost-study firms. It could be done for a good deal less than what anti-public schoolers are currently spending on useless endeavors; however this is one that CAN'T fail, since facts argue, but MONEY TALKS.
Perhaps they're hung up on the "principle" of the issue; however a moral victory, is simply pride bringing a fall.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 02:46:32 pm by BrianMcCandliss »
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