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[rdeacon]

Leopard brings up a good point.  For all of his focus on geo-libertarianism (which is just as valid a focus as those of us who rant about our own pet issues), Bill is actually working for the FSP.  That puts Bill a step ahead of 90% of the membership.

[Tracy Saboe]

Yes Bill was "working" to further entrench New Hampshire in the surfdom of property taxation.  Sounds almost completely contrary to the FSPs goals.

Tracy

[RhythmStar]

Yes Bill was "working" to further entrench New Hampshire in the surfdom of property taxation.  Sounds almost completely contrary to the FSPs goals.

Tracy

False.  NH is already mostly funded by property tax, which includes a tax on improvements.  BillG is working on eliminating the tax on improvements, essentially taking the tax off of the fruits of one's labors.  If he has his way, you'll be able to build up your land without suffering a tax penalty -- a step in the right direction!

The alternative -- no taxes and no government -- is not doable in our lifetimes in NH or any other US locale.

RS

[Tracy Saboe]

I thought the goal of the FSP was "liberty in our lifetime"

Tracy

[Mike Lorrey]

Yes Bill was "working" to further entrench New Hampshire in the surfdom of property taxation.  Sounds almost completely contrary to the FSPs goals.

Tracy

False.  NH is already mostly funded by property tax, which includes a tax on improvements.  BillG is working on eliminating the tax on improvements, essentially taking the tax off of the fruits of one's labors.  If he has his way, you'll be able to build up your land without suffering a tax penalty -- a step in the right direction!

The alternative -- no taxes and no government -- is not doable in our lifetimes in NH or any other US locale.

And in this respect, I support BillG. What I don't support is a) the fact that he doesn't follow his own doctrine in this regard (he thinks that property in cities should be taxed more, even though all of the value of city land is from the infrastructure improvements paid for by past taxes paid by those land owners (i.e. improvement value, not raw land value), and b) the fact that he wants to use the LVT to redistribute money from the rich to the poor with a 'citizens dividend'. He also doesn't support having large wealthy non-profit land owners pay LVT on lands they hold as private wildlife preserves or other environmentally protected land in private hands. These are just a few of the reasons why I oppose BillG's proposals in the end, despite the decent basis upon which his philosophy is built.

The fact that he cannot properly follow his own doctrine, primarily because of the possible threat to his Green religion caused by LVT against ALL land, belies his true agenda.

[Mike Lorrey]

Leopard brings up a good point.  For all of his focus on geo-libertarianism (which is just as valid a focus as those of us who rant about our own pet issues), Bill is actually working for the FSP.  That puts Bill a step ahead of 90% of the membership.

Actually, I have to dispute this. I have not seen BillG at any FSP related functions here in NH. He has not participated in anything I am aware of. He claims to be a NH resident, and other LPNH members have seen him in the past, but he is not active at this point in time, so far as I have seen.

[LeopardPM]

Mike,
you have seen his posts in the Free Town Project and he hasn't peeped once about Geo-Stuff... as far as his physical activities, I think he is mostly politically involved with his land 'tax-shift' idea - he has stated that he has made presentations and such to legislators.  I think he is also a teacher of some sort at a college or other school

[Terry 1956]

Yes Bill was "working" to further entrench New Hampshire in the surfdom of property taxation.  Sounds almost completely contrary to the FSPs goals.

Tracy

False.  NH is already mostly funded by property tax, which includes a tax on improvements.  BillG is working on eliminating the tax on improvements, essentially taking the tax off of the fruits of one's labors.  If he has his way, you'll be able to build up your land without suffering a tax penalty -- a step in the right direction!

The alternative -- no taxes and no government -- is not doable in our lifetimes in NH or any other US locale.

RS

                                                                             
         Well I'm 48 if I live another 30 plus years I think it is doable because at the rate the governments are going it will fail. So we will either have no tax or a much higher effective tax on the economy,  the offical rate may be less than 50% but with more regulations it will probally be 80% or higher.

[Kelton Baker]

It's not HIS board, it's the MEMBER'S BOARD, PER CORPORATE BYLAWS.

Really?  I must have missed that part of the bylaws.

This has happened before. The noob FSP President (who was that? huh?) gave into petty PEER PRESSURE to remove Bill Grennon's "member" text below his board username. "We can't have these communists giving the FSP a bad name." (Sound familiar baldy?) Mr Noob FSP President acknowledged. Then he gave up. "Awww... I was wrong."

BillG had his FSP member title removed because of accusations by several people that he was adversely infiltrating the FSP.  He was asked to respond to these accusations and he provided none.  I went back and read over 100 of his prior messages to discover the truth of these accusations.

Elizabeth,  who even went so far as to say that geo-libs could destroy the FSP, rallied to have that action undone because she doubted BillG's accusers, I believe.

It was a simple measure of taking action against those who would try to harm the FSP by not being associated with those who go contrary to us.  The same goes for overt racists, those who advocate fascism, and others.  BillG and Geo-libertarianism have been tolerated because there are some legitimate political and philosophical discussions pertaining to the Statement of Intent and the mission of the FSP that could be related to what BillG has to say, even if he represents an extreme minority among our membership.

I think that it was right to be concerned when BillG caused so much consternation among the readers of this board when he started increasing his geo-lib proselyting.

I don't know anything about this most recent action of banning BillG, but I know he is certainly not the first to be banned from this board, and he has received more warnings than any other person before.  I myself was given a few warnings too, and I am sure I would have been banned if I had persisted in some of my arguments that I carried on last Spring about trying to influence the FSP in different directions than its primary mission.

[rdeacon]

Relatively speaking.  If you think you'll be living in a minarchy in 20 years as a result of the FSP, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

I thought the goal of the FSP was "liberty in our lifetime"

Tracy

[rdeacon]

Bill is actually working on the Concord planning commission (or some commission like that).  He has the mayor's ear as of the last time I spoke with him - a pretty valuable asset if you ask me.  You might not see him at many FSP events (and its not a surprise, considering the reception he gets around here), but on the same note you and I haven't met since I went to that LP meeting when I first came in-state, and we're both active.  But more to your point, I most recently saw him at the Winter Escape, during the Saturday activities.  He brought his son and spent a few hours at the Inn with us.

Leopard brings up a good point.  For all of his focus on geo-libertarianism (which is just as valid a focus as those of us who rant about our own pet issues), Bill is actually working for the FSP.  That puts Bill a step ahead of 90% of the membership.

Actually, I have to dispute this. I have not seen BillG at any FSP related functions here in NH. He has not participated in anything I am aware of. He claims to be a NH resident, and other LPNH members have seen him in the past, but he is not active at this point in time, so far as I have seen.

[Eddie_Bradford]

Well I'd still like to hear from Bill to see what's going on.  If anyone else wants to hear from him or just continue "commons" debating follow me to Zack Bass's unofficial FSP forum

forum.freecountyproject.com

go to "General Discussion" and I'll start a thread called "On the Commons" theoretically Bill will be reading this and then he could go there to and post on that forum.

-Eddie

[Morpheus]

Relatively speaking.  If you think you'll be living in a minarchy in 20 years as a result of the FSP, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

I am confident that a fairly big bunch of Local Minarchies could be established within that span of time, via Free Town Projects. But these are akin to invasion [My kind of activism], and as such you surely oppose them vehemently.

[LeopardPM]

Relatively speaking.  If you think you'll be living in a minarchy in 20 years as a result of the FSP, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

I am confident that a fairly big bunch of Local Minarchies could be established within that span of time, via Free Town Projects. But these are akin to invasion [My kind of activism], and as such you surely oppose them vehemently.

I ain't opposed... force has been applied to me throughout my life through the 'democratic' system... Freeing Grafton will be part of my time to turn the tables...

[Terry 1956]

Relatively speaking.  If you think you'll be living in a minarchy in 20 years as a result of the FSP, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

I thought the goal of the FSP was "liberty in our lifetime"

Tracy

                                                                               
I think its doable, 2024, 5 election cycles, 10 for the House, more red ink from the government, the dollar continues to fall, no one will lend the federal government money willingly by then, medical cost continue to increase by double digits percentages.