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Author Topic: What happened to BillG?  (Read 21375 times)

mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2004, 02:53:28 am »

Is there a way to allow him access to only this topic?  There should be since we have members only threads so clearly we can exclude some people from some threads.

-Eddie



 :o


You people are mad. Mad I tell you.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2004, 02:58:59 am »

Quote
What threads outside the miscellaneous area did BillG hijack?
He had a long standing (before I joined, I think) habit of bringing up his geolibertarian views on every subject that popped up. Someone would be discussing a topic, and he would hijack it, some were then closed as off topic. Do a search for threads with billg in them that are outside the commons for examples. I am not sure how many threads or posts were deleted though.

Feel free to give examples of how Bill Grennon's posts were not applicable to the thread. Considering Bill Grennon's one and ONLY issue of controversy was the philosophical issue and principle of self-ownership I don't see how he could squeeze that in between the discussions of the Extropian Randians or the Republican Austrians. Dorks one and all. LoL.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2004, 03:13:13 am »

I've been warned before to stop doing something or I would be banned.  I stopped immediately and permanently.

That was many months ago.

As long as people are given sufficient warning of this private board's policies, then it is their own fault if they are banned.   :-\


Yeah, me too. But we're both still here. (Go ahead Doug, ban me now. Call it retroactive).


Bill Grennon "hijacked" threads which for non-facists means he brought the subject up.

This has happened before. The noob FSP President (who was that? huh?) gave into petty PEER PRESSURE to remove Bill Grennon's "member" text below his board username. "We can't have these communists giving the FSP a bad name." (Sound familiar baldy?) Mr Noob FSP President acknowledged. Then he gave up. "Awww... I was wrong."

You're still wrong NOOB. Stop hanging out on the fricking message board and spend more time on the FSP Board. Or else else send me a refund for the $500 or so dollars I've donated so far. And admit to all members that you're missing out on atleast $2,500+ for the FSP when my summer business picks up.

Because you want to play politics for the benefit of a bunch of pathetic online webboard jokeys.


"Good Riddins"
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2004, 03:18:31 am »

BillG may have been doing what he thought was important and though I wouldn't have banned him myself, it seemed a valid option.

There was even a forum created specifically regarding this and still other threads would get hijacked about creating land taxation and get moved to "The Commons".

Please point out which thread OUTSIDE "The Commons" forum which Bill Grennon promoted his "banned" opinions. Do that now. NOW.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2004, 03:24:31 am »

This was the problem, Steve. BillG was specifically told to stop hijacking threads. If he wanted to promote land socialism, he could do so here, creating his own threads.

BillG is what I call a Kudzutarian....


You wish there was something called Hairzutarian I bet Michael.


What does being an "extropian" have to do with being free from fuckheads, Michael?

You've promoted the fact that you never were a REAL member of the Libertarian Party, either national or state, befor a few months ago. Why is this a good thing again?

Don't worry Michael, we all know you are an avid SciFi enthusiast. That equals FREEDOM in anyone's book, SciFi or not I would think.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2004, 03:25:39 am »

Bill has this habit of turning every conversation into a Geo-lib one. So, we created the Geo-Lib “commons” specifically to give those concerned with Geo-Lib issues a venue and to keep other threads from being hijacked.

Bill was told to discuss Geo-Libertarianism as much as he wants, only keep it in the Geo-Lib area. He continued to hijack threads and he kept receiving warnings.

Yesterday, the warnings ran out.



                                                                             
  That is still lame but its your board and your right to do with it what you want.


It's not HIS board, it's the MEMBER'S BOARD, PER CORPORATE BYLAWS.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2004, 03:32:19 am »

The goal now of the FSP is to get 20K liberty minded people to N.H.  If the leadership felt that helps then it's in their right to do.  I have some sympathy for Bill but a lot of people were getting tired hearing the same mantra over and over again.  I know I personally saw at least a few times where, even after the "On The Commons" forum was started Bill would join into another thread and immediate start up with the LVT and economic scarcity rents.  The subject was wearing thin and I believe at least a few people were getting frustrated at the single mindedness of it.  Was it right to ban him?  I don't know but it is a private forum and the people working to keep this board running had a legitimate right to do it.

"I know I personally saw at least a few times where, even after the "On The  Sanctity of Life" forum was started Bill would join into another thread and immediate start up with the Right to Life. The subject was wearing thin and I believe at least a few people were getting frustrated at the single mindedness of it.  Was it right to ban him?  I don't know but it is a private forum and the people working to keep this board running had a legitimate right to do it."


You people have moved into joke mode.




 


Quote
Again, I don't know of anyone else that actually had their own forum created in an attempt to be fair.  There is a limit to what people can do on the board and apparently we saw it.  That's life.

 :o

Yeah, I hear those negros had there own speakeasys.
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mark

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2004, 03:35:41 am »

I liked the guy myself.  Even though I am more of an an-cap, I found his ideas well worth considering.


That's what the FSP politicians fear most.
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SteveA

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2004, 06:53:24 am »

Quote
Quote
BillG may have been doing what he thought was important and though I wouldn't have banned him myself, it seemed a valid option.

There was even a forum created specifically regarding this and still other threads would get hijacked about creating land taxation and get moved to "The Commons".

Please point out which thread OUTSIDE "The Commons" forum which Bill Grennon promoted his "banned" opinions. Do that now. NOW.

They had to keep moving the threads to the commons section.

You must not have been involved in those subjects.

It would typically go something like this:

Poster #1:  Should Congress retain the right to coin currency or pass this to the Federal Reserve?
Reply #1:  Having metal currency provides a stable value for trade that fiat currency can't guarantee.
BillG:  The economic scarcity rent of gold is not being captured by government and the valuation of it is below its intrinsic worth.  The land value tax (LVT) corrects for this and stabilizes the market value by capturing its positive radiated externalities.

Quote
Feel free to give examples of how Bill Grennon's posts were not applicable to the thread. Considering Bill Grennon's one and ONLY issue of controversy was the philosophical issue and principle of self-ownership

True, Bill supported a lot of other things but he'd rarely mention anything else.  It was the same discussion over and over again a thousand times (truely only a few hundred).  People spent tons of time talking with him about it.  You could hardly log on without seeing 2/3rds of the recent messages being a conversation on the land value taxation, yet despite all the discussions and concerns brought out I don't think much of any of it was really even understood and definitely not addressed by him.

I know it's not really fair posting here when he can't defend himself right now but I wasn't the only person who found a continual barrage of how great land taxation is.  If he would've even spent 1/3rd of his time trying to help find ways to reduce the size of government, as the FSP statement of intent indicates it would have been better.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 06:56:49 am by SteveA »
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JonM

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2004, 12:59:34 pm »

I tried to understand BillG's point of view.  I asked questions, but few were answered.  Some were answered with insults, which I pointed out.  To his credit after a few times of telling him I do not appreciate an insult as a reply to what I consider a legitimate question, he simply went to answering only the questions he liked.  

Many times he touted how he has proposed LVT to mayors of towns and they saw value in it.  I have even acknowledged that LVT is a good thing if you approve of the government attempting to influence society via taxation.  But no matter how many times I asked, he would not explain how appreciation of LVT equated to endorsement of economic scarcity rent, which is what he seemed to be claiming those same mayors supported when they said they liked LVT.  This is at least my perception.

While most people here do not like the statist way of doing things, few would deny them the right to form their own enclave and tax the hell out of each other so long as they didn't come after the rest of us looking to subsidize their way of life.  From what I saw, BillG did not allow for this live and let live philosophy.  Either it was his way or you had no right to call yourself a libertarian.

Now while I cannot speak to whether that sort of divisiveness is useful, I can say that I saw threads on other sections of the forum which while seeming to have very little to do with LVT and economic scarcity rent seemed to take sharp turns into that direction as BillG sought to convert more people to his way of thinking.

If the administrators of the site made clear to him such behavior was not to be tolerated, and even went so far as to create this board for him to discuss the topic in, then he has little room to complain.  While some of us desire to live in a world where there are no rules, we must all acknowledge that for the time being we do.  And when you break those rules, you must pay the consequences.  From what I know, which is to say, not much, of the situation, the administrators went more than a little out of their way to accommodate BillG.  If he could not fulfill his part of the bargain, then he has no one to blame but himself.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 09:42:49 pm by JonM »
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RhythmStar

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2004, 07:36:08 pm »

FWIW, all of the times I saw BillG insert LVT or self-ownership into a discussion, it was germain.  I think it would have been more strategic of him to do less of that and more participating in a strictly non-LVT manner, only finally offering to take up a new side-thread in the Commons when the topic inexorably came into that frame of reference, but I find the accusations of "hijacking" to be puerile at best, and Orwellian at least.

The FSP has shot itself in the foot with this one.  Worse, I feel it is a sign of favoritism towards a certain clique.  The more that such cliques are favored, the more collective foot-shooting will ensue.  

FTR, anarchy is NOT a winning ticket this century.   People do not equate anarchy with freedom.

Sadly,

RS






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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2004, 11:24:13 pm »

Is there a way to allow him access to only this topic?  There should be since we have members only threads so clearly we can exclude some people from some threads.

-Eddie



 :o


You people are mad. Mad I tell you.
                                                                               
 Eddie don't throw us all in the same wood pile.
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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2004, 07:23:27 pm »

I would have had more respect for BillG than I did if he had focused more upon other issues besides his pathetic Geo-Libertarianism.

As I come to think of it.. did he EVER talk about anything other than Geo-Libertarianism??
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RhythmStar

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2004, 08:14:27 pm »

Sometimes.  He was actually quite lucid.  Some of the LVT rants suffered from cut-and-paste-itis, which detracted from his message and added to the tiresome aspect.  Even I got tired of that, although I would never ban someone for being merely tiresome.

RS
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LeopardPM

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Re:What happened to BillG?
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2004, 08:39:10 pm »

I am still keeping in contact with Bill, within yahoo forums and private emails - I would consider him a 'friend' and will definitely meet with him when I get out to NH on my scouting trip.

He is a wealth of information and he really knows his stuff.  He is NOT just a Geo... and he has alot to offer to other porcs...

I do not have to subscribe to his georgist ideas to benefit from everything else that he is as a person, I suggest to anyone and everyone not to dismiss resources such a Bill off-handedly...he will be one ally we will need when the going gets tough in the legislature...

Non-Georgist and never will be,
michael
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