Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!  (Read 7602 times)

Dissipate

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 389
  • Fight the Fed!

Hi, I am 20 years old and I'm pretty new to these forums. I became a Libertarian about 6 months ago after reading about the treachery of the Federal Reserve System and the IRS. Before this I was a Republican and a conservative and I really had no clue how much the government has opressed people just through their common currency alone!

You see, the government over the years has weaned our parents and our grandparents off of what is known as specie currency. Specie currency is currency that is backed by gold or silver, commodities that have an intrinsic value. This currency is what the United States and other countries were founded on. So what happened? Well, slowly but surely the government removed all backing of our common currency and today we have something known as fiat currency. Fiat currency is currency that is issued by government decree. Its value comes from only two things, people's faith in it and the fact that you have to use it to pay taxes.

If fiat currency was given to people from the get go they would not accept it, the reason why is that what people view as currency is what their parents view as currency. It is passed down from generation to generation. Your parents probably taught you that Federal Reserve Notes were our currency from a very young age.

You can read more about this concept here: http://goldeconomy.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=18

What is so bad about fiat currency? Well, what is so bad about it is that the government can play "tricks" with this currency. Since the currency has no real backing the government can print as much as it wants when it wants. Since 1913 U.S. dollars have had 1500% inflation. The government inflates our currency and grants banks the special privilege to create money out of nothing through the practice known as fractional reserve banking.

You can end this treachery, you can reject the concept of money that your parents and the government have instilled upon you. Fortunately through the Internet this has become possible. There are alternative currencies you can use in everyday life right on the Internet. You may have already heard about these currencies, they are e-metal currencies. Online currencies backed by gold and silver. You can read about them on the site from the link above.

Think about it from a Libertarian standpoint. What is the greatest power the government exerts over you in your day to day life? The money that you use. When you use U.S. Dollars you are basically putting your economic future in the hands of the Federal Reserve. It may be too late for your parents and grandparents but the younger Libertarians out there (such as myself) can reject the concept of money that the government has manipulated so deviously.
Logged
The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.

SteveA

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2905
  • Freedom - Are you man enough to handle it?
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2004, 03:27:37 pm »

I'm not under 21 but I enjoyed reading this and agree very much with the sentiment though I wanted to point out that even money over the net can be abused if it's not truly backed by valuable assets.  The only real way to assure your savings is safe is to have valuable, tangible assets that can't be stolen or taxed and hopefully won't drop in value over time or even better - gain in value over time, and the easier they are to trade the better also.  I don't know what the ideal investment would be but those are the characteristics of currencies that would have the most value.  I like the idea of gold or commodity backed currency and if there are real ways of verifying that the money is backed by these, then I'm all for it.  E-currency could be very good but it would be best to be able to know they are truly backed by real goods ... I'm not sure how to do that without either personally verifying it or creating your own currency (and then you have the trouble of convincing other people they can exchange it for real goods).

Just my thoughts on the subject
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 03:28:13 pm by SteveA »
Logged
"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren.  Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere.  Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile.  But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."

Dissipate

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 389
  • Fight the Fed!
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2004, 04:16:44 pm »

I'm not under 21 but I enjoyed reading this and agree very much with the sentiment though I wanted to point out that even money over the net can be abused if it's not truly backed by valuable assets.  The only real way to assure your savings is safe is to have valuable, tangible assets that can't be stolen or taxed and hopefully won't drop in value over time or even better - gain in value over time, and the easier they are to trade the better also.  I don't know what the ideal investment would be but those are the characteristics of currencies that would have the most value.  I like the idea of gold or commodity backed currency and if there are real ways of verifying that the money is backed by these, then I'm all for it.  E-currency could be very good but it would be best to be able to know they are truly backed by real goods ... I'm not sure how to do that without either personally verifying it or creating your own currency (and then you have the trouble of convincing other people they can exchange it for real goods).

Just my thoughts on the subject

Some of the major e-metal sites such as pecunix have independent third party audits of their warehouse. Also, many of them allow you to take delivery of the precious metals if you so choose. This is a $1.5 billion dollar industry, and it is growing exponentially. We just need to let go of our pre-conditioned ideas of money and adopt this e-currency revolution. It is a first and critical step towards freeing ourselves from the economic control the government exerts over us.

I realize that since you are probably of an older age group that you are wary of this concept, but you need not be. I invite you to read the book The End of Money and the Struggle for Financial Freedom by Richard Rahn. You can get a copy used for about $3 off of amazon.com. The end of government control over our currency has been prophesized by Dr. Rahn in this short book and he mentions that it will be through the Internet and encryption. Well, its already here! We can be stubborn and slow down the transition to electronic currencies and perpetuate the stranglehold the Federal Reserve has on us or we can adopt these currencies now and be the first to enjoy greater economic freedom.
Logged
The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.

SteveA

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2905
  • Freedom - Are you man enough to handle it?
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2004, 04:27:25 pm »

Thank you Dissipate, I'm sure over time too that the dependable ones will retain customer confidence and weed out the unrealiable sources, so I can agree that it's likely the way to go in the future.

A quick side note to how worthless the dollar is becoming - they've updated bills multiple times in the last 5-10 years or so.  It's almost gotten to the point where anyone can print up something fancy and say "Hey, these are the new bills they're printing" and noone would know otherwise.  Just print up some fancy paper and trade someone a car for it ;) LOL
Logged
"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren.  Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere.  Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile.  But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."

Dissipate

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 389
  • Fight the Fed!
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2004, 04:48:28 pm »

Thank you Dissipate, I'm sure over time too that the dependable ones will retain customer confidence and weed out the unrealiable sources, so I can agree that it's likely the way to go in the future.

A quick side note to how worthless the dollar is becoming - they've updated bills multiple times in the last 5-10 years or so.  It's almost gotten to the point where anyone can print up something fancy and say "Hey, these are the new bills they're printing" and noone would know otherwise.  Just print up some fancy paper and trade someone a car for it ;) LOL

Yep it has already happened (or is happening). There were fraudulent e-metal sites and they got shut down and went out of business. However, hundreds of third parties provide services with the top 4 or 5 e-metal sites, therefore it is safe to assume that they are legitimate (their legitmacy allowed them to survive). Just do a search on Google and you will see what I mean. A business would not take the risk in dealing with these e-metals if they thought it might be a fraud. Remember, businesses are a lot more scrupulous than your average consumer.

Also consider this, you KNOW U.S. dollars have absolutely nothing  backing them, why would you choose to do business in something where:

A. You know there is nothing backing it.
B. You know that the currency is constantly losing buying power.
C. The institutions (banks mostly) that deal with U.S. dollars must report all personal information on their customers to the IRS and the government at the drop of a hat.
D. Every economic activity that is done using this currency is affected by the decisions made by a government selected board in secret.

I personally do not want my financial life to be determined by secret meetings made by a central banking cartel.

You need to ask yourself why the government keeps changing the currency. The reason why is that the government wants to maintain its absolute monopoly on counterfeiting. As image reproduction technology advances the government's monopoly in this area is threatened, therefore they change the money in order to thrwart it. This is somewhat analogous to the monopoly that many states enjoy on gambling. They make it illegal for anyone to set up a gambling operation and then they issue lottery tickets. If anyone sets up a gambling operation they could face prison time (similar to the counterfeiter).

Do I think that people should be allowed to counterfeit money? No, I don't think ANYONE should have this power, not even the government. On the other hand I believe that anyone who wants to set up a casino should be allowed to (as long as it is honest).
Logged
The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.

LeRuineur6

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1634
  • Act decisively. Without reserve!
    • Liberty Scholarship Fund
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2004, 07:42:27 pm »

I'm not allowed to post here because I'm 22, but you should really read these threads to learn more about this topic and to discuss it further:

Using Bimetallism as a Currency!

This is a thorough discussion on how we plan to jump-start NON-FIAT gold and silver bullion as a currency in New Hampshire!  I'm going to start doing this as soon as I move in May!  :)


Gold Debit Cards are a RIPOFF!!!

Please read ALL of the cost analyses here before you lose a lot of money doing this.  You will be wasting AT LEAST $50 per month to use a gold debit card, and you will also fall under tremendous scrutiny by the federal government because all of these are offshore debit cards.

Okay, this will be my last post in here for a long time, I swear.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 07:43:30 pm by LeRuineur6 »
Logged
Please donate $5 to $10 per month to the Liberty Scholarship Fund!
"Noncooperation is intended to pave the way to real, honorable, and voluntary cooperation based on mutual respect and trust." -Gandhi

thoreaupoe

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Draft Dodgers & Tax Evaders Are My Heroes
    • Whiskey Rebellion
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2004, 07:11:08 pm »

Great thread, dissipate.  :)

I have a prediction that Liberty Dollars will be big in NH, have you ever heard of them before?  

You can read up on them at their site: www.norfed.org
Logged
"It's not an endlessly expanding list of 'rights', the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery ”hay and a barn for human cattle." -- Alexis de Tocqueville

Dissipate

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 389
  • Fight the Fed!
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2004, 12:27:19 am »

Great thread, dissipate.  :)

I have a prediction that Liberty Dollars will be big in NH, have you ever heard of them before?  

You can read up on them at their site: www.norfed.org

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread. I try to bring quality content to these boards.

Yes I have heard of Liberty Dollars. In fact I have researched them quite a bit. If people use them in New Hampshire that is great, anything is better than FRNs. However, being the techie that I am, I am more interested in e-metals.

You see, Liberty Dollars are tied to the FRN by NORFED in order to get them to circulate, they are used 1-1 with FRNs. This to me is an undesireable trait, I think its better to have a currency that is completely unrelated to the FRN, the currency that comes to my mind and probably many others' is gold.  :)

Don't get my wrong though, when and if I move to New Hampshire, if local business is using Liberty Dollars I will use them also but I will try to educate people about e-currency as well.
Logged
The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.

Neo-Jeffersonian

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 193
  • Life Boy Scout and NRA Sharpshooter.
Re:Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2004, 02:58:45 pm »

The Federal Reserve is EVIL!  No doubt about that.  The thing is:  They (the government) only offer one mean of paying for things.  The Federal Reserve Note.  That in itself perpetuates the problem.  But at the same time, the gold standard has its problems as well.  The reason we left the gold standard was because we owed the french millions of dollars in gold.  Now we don't have to pay that gold, because we don't have a gold standard.  You have to be careful of the looters and the moochers.  

But yeah.  The liberty dollar is a step in the right direction.  Libertarion presidential candidate Michael Badnarik uses the Liberty Dollar whenever and where ever he can.  (he also refuses to get a drivers license because he thinks it's unreasonable.  GOOD FOR HIM!!!!) but i digress.  

yes, the federal reserve is evil, and yes, if no one used it, the problem would be solved.

Century Jefferson.
(Formerly Gandalf the White)
Logged
"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Johnny

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2005, 06:36:29 pm »

We owed money in dollars, but what the government did was undervalue the price of gold to dollars and then let people convert their dollars into our gold and take the gold in reserve  Also, Roosevelt did make gold "hoarding" illegal in the 30s, so I guess that didn't help much either for the "cause" of gold.
Logged

Neo-Jeffersonian

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 193
  • Life Boy Scout and NRA Sharpshooter.
Re: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2005, 07:00:30 pm »

We should come up with a conspiracy where we get together thousands of people, perhaps tens of thousands, who are willing to gather as much Federal Reserve money as they can and start destroying it.  Burn money, dump stacks and stacks of coins into some place where the can't be gotten again...  It would take a lot of people, but if we could destroy the stuff faster than they could produce it, we'd undermine the entire federal reserve.

Sentry Jefferson
Logged
"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

evedward

  • Guest
Re: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2005, 06:17:09 am »

Interesting thread, guys!  One more suggestion to chop government down to size, or at least return money to the people.  This is very involved and complicated, but do any of you know if there are some lawyers among us Porcupines?  The reason I ask is I would like to see a successful lawsuit brought against the government to stop social security deductions being taken from people's paychecks if they don't want to participate in this scam any longer.  I know, going up against Big Brother, the deck is stacked against you, but if we got a large enough group that was represented by a few knowledgeable legal minds, at least it would garner a lot of attention AND give others the courage to take action. Social security is a hot topic right now, and even Bush made comments about how the system especially cheats black Americans due to their shorter life spans. Is there a way to stop deductions from being taken out of your check?   
Logged

Gabo

  • FSP Participant
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
Re: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2005, 02:28:49 pm »

Is there a way to stop deductions from being taken out of your check?   
Well, when you deal with a private currency like the Liberty Dollar (www.libertydollar.org), the US government considers the exchanging of them as "bartering".

According to them, "sales" only occur when the dreaded FRNs are being exchanged.



So since a Liberty is not a "sale", and doing labor to get them isn't considered "wages", then I suppose they can't really tax them.


If all employees are paid in Libertys and all sales made in Libertys, the US technically can't tax us for it.




I think this could be a big step to get government off our backs.
Logged
I love my country!

It's my government that sucks...

Pat McCotter

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 866
Re: Hit the government where it counts, stop using government money!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2005, 06:07:28 pm »

Straight from the IRS - Topic 420 - Bartering Income
Logged
Visualize Whirled Peas

Give Pizza Chance

I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly. - Steven Wright
Pages: [1]   Go Up