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Author Topic: Rights  (Read 17959 times)

Tracy Saboe

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Re:Rights
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2004, 09:37:19 pm »

It depends on the market.

I wouldn't want to try to do it. I'm not in any business that depends on air. The polution problem is going away on it's own, so more then likely it won't ever make sence for the market to develope property rights to it.

I would never try to plan the market. Only statists (like you, who want to tax to socially plan and encourage certain things) try to do that.

Tracy
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

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BillG

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Re:Rights
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2004, 09:55:20 pm »

Quote
I wouldn't want to try to do it.

why?

Quote
I'm not in any business that depends on air

you breathe don't you?

Quote
The polution problem is going away on it's own

not if there is no cost to dump crap into the commons...we simply need to assert that all the rights to equal access of the air are in the possession of all those currently living and as of yet unborn. Now we have a scarcity market for the polluters to rent!
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:Rights
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2004, 10:12:44 pm »

Bill, Air polution In America was going away on its own for a good 2 decades prior to the Clean Air Act. This is simply because its economical for businesses to conserve resources and re use where it's practical. The better technology is, the more capible and practical it is to save money by reuseing stuff. When you reuse stuff, you don't polute as much. It's that simple.

And when a company polutes the air in such a way that it hurts people, they should pay restitution to the people who get hurt by it. THe INDIVIDUALS who are hurt by it.

You need to reread "Marketing Garbage" It's chapter ten. You have it there. ReRead it, go ahead. They gave examples of companies that pay restitution to the people they hurt with their polution.

Get rid of limited liability laws (Which by the way, we agree on), and it would even be mitigated more. The EPA polutes MUCH MUCH more then the businesses it regulates.

TRacy
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

Jack Conway

Conway Supports Obamacare
Conway Supports Cap and Trade
Conway Supports Abortion
Conway’s Utilities Rate Hike Scandal
Conway is in Bed with Big Pharma
Conway is Backed by Wall Street Bankers

<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2004, 10:14:52 pm »


What's your basis for rights, BillG?
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BillG

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Re:Rights
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2004, 10:19:44 pm »


What's your basis for rights, BillG?

Well because there are so many Randians here that is probably as good a place as any to start:

"There is only one fundamental right (all others are its consequences or corollaries): a man's right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action."
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<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2004, 10:22:53 pm »


What's your basis for rights, BillG?

Well because there are so many Randians here that is probably as good a place as any to start:

"There is only one fundamental right (all others are its consequences or corollaries): a man's right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action."


Is this your view?
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
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demarkus

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Re:Rights
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2004, 11:09:23 pm »

I have to drive home now, so I'll have to finish explaining my theory of rights when I get there.
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<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2004, 08:03:10 pm »


What's your basis for rights, BillG?

Well because there are so many Randians here that is probably as good a place as any to start:

"There is only one fundamental right (all others are its consequences or corollaries): a man's right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action."


Your basis for rights is, like Rand, in nature? Our rights derive from our natures?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2004, 08:17:39 pm by Patrick Norton »
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
-Ayn Rand
http://www.aynrand.org
http://capitalism.org

BillG

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Re:Rights
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2004, 08:11:55 pm »


What's your basis for rights, BillG?

Well because there are so many Randians here that is probably as good a place as any to start:

"There is only one fundamental right (all others are its consequences or corollaries): a man's right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action."


Is your basis for rights is, like Rand, in nature? Our rights derive from our natures?

fine for purposes of this discussions yes...
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BillG

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Re:Rights
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2004, 08:12:52 pm »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men
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<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2004, 08:15:57 pm »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men

What do you mean by "amongst men?"
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
-Ayn Rand
http://www.aynrand.org
http://capitalism.org

BillG

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Re:Rights
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2004, 08:52:40 pm »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men

What do you mean by "amongst men?"


socially constructed - we decide among ourselves what is a right...

further clarification on "our nature"...a biological basis expressed thru our human nature.
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<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2004, 03:12:11 am »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men

What do you mean by "amongst men?"


socially constructed - we decide among ourselves what is a right...

further clarification on "our nature"...a biological basis expressed thru our human nature.

I would have to reject socially constructed "rights" as subjective and arbitrary.

I would have to reject religious/authoritarian views of rights as also arbitrary.

That leaves only rights rooted in human nature...
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
-Ayn Rand
http://www.aynrand.org
http://capitalism.org

RhythmStar

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Re:Rights
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2004, 12:49:58 pm »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men

What do you mean by "amongst men?"


socially constructed - we decide among ourselves what is a right...

further clarification on "our nature"...a biological basis expressed thru our human nature.

I would have to reject socially constructed "rights" as subjective and arbitrary.

I would have to reject religious/authoritarian views of rights as also arbitrary.

That leaves only rights rooted in human nature...

WHich happens to also be the Deist view of rights, even though we hold that the reason humans are made that way is the Creator's intention that we discover and adhere to those principles out of Reason, not Religion.

RS
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<Patrick>

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Re:Rights
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2004, 03:40:38 pm »

what are all the possibilities?

1. God
2. our nature
3. amongst men

What do you mean by "amongst men?"


socially constructed - we decide among ourselves what is a right...

further clarification on "our nature"...a biological basis expressed thru our human nature.

I would have to reject socially constructed "rights" as subjective and arbitrary.

I would have to reject religious/authoritarian views of rights as also arbitrary.

That leaves only rights rooted in human nature...

WHich happens to also be the Deist view of rights, even though we hold that the reason humans are made that way is the Creator's intention that we discover and adhere to those principles out of Reason, not Religion.

RS


So we have a common foundation in Reason and human nature. Why don't we start there?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 03:41:18 pm by Patrick Norton »
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
-Ayn Rand
http://www.aynrand.org
http://capitalism.org
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