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Author Topic: Police/Fire  (Read 2668 times)

thinkdifferent13

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Police/Fire
« on: February 17, 2004, 10:54:23 pm »

Hey everyone, I'm back with some more questions about how things would work in the Free State/perfect libertarian world.

The primary job of governments is to protect its citizenry. It seems that a well trained police force is part of this. I have thought about it, and I dont really see anyway to privatize a police force. It seems that a private police force could simply arrest business enemies of those invested in them, or greatly over step ethical boundaries.

I know in some places there are private fire forces, though I dont know to what degree or exactly how they work.

Anyway, if any one has any specifics or ideas on how a private police and/or fire force would work, let me know....
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Police/Fire
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2004, 11:06:12 pm »

I don't think too many among us are very strong on the idea of entirely privatizing a police force.
Limiting the power of the state and its police forces to solely the protection of life, liberty and property is a good start.  Allowing more freedom for private security guards and private investigators, to meet the demands for more personalized and responsive policing needs is also a good goal.  To entirely eliminate the state's effectively ultimate monopoly on deadly force would basically mean the elimination of the state, or reduce it to a notary office and public-relations office that operates on donations.  A dream of some among us,  but they are in the minority.
 
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Police/Fire
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2004, 02:00:01 pm »

Many parts of New Hampshire already run their fire departments on a partly private basis, i.e. on the manpower side, with Volunteer Fire Departments. As fire engines and other equipment is quite expensive, the capital side of things has tended to be handled by municipalities only because the monopoly power to tax allows towns to obtain much lower interest rates on debt than private corporations.

Of course, most fire departments started off private entirely, and were forced into being municipalized by the imposition of sales and property taxes on fire equipment in private hands.

If a town wanted to privatize its fire department, it would organize a volunteer fire corps, then spin off its equipment into a non-profit corporation. It would pass ordinances exempting the corporation from sales, registration, property, inventory, operation, and other taxes. It may even agree to guarantee any loan made to the department, in order to help reduce its interest rates without any taxes raised.

The newly privatized fire department would come up with annual dues for residents to pay to belong to the Fire Protection Cooperative. Residents who did not join the coop but contracted its services in the emergency event of a fire or other emergency, would pay twice the costs incurred. Failure to pay would result in lien upon the rescued property, and ultimately court ordered forclosure and auction by the fire department of the property.

I currently live in a community which has its own security, roads, and fire departments, as well as its own water system, separate from town services. As a result, we pay significantly less in property tax to the town since the community association negotiated a contract in regards to this with the town. We instead pay an association fee to the Eastman Community Association, which is about the same amount we would have paid to the town, but we also have a championship 18 hole golf course, a lake with 5 beaches, a club, our private restaurant, and many other community facilities like playing fields, heated tennis courts, etc.. Nice benefits to avoiding the tax man.

Privatizing this is not difficult
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LeopardPM

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Re:Police/Fire
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 01:56:50 am »

sheesh Mike! forget Grafton, I wanna move to where you are!

in regards to privatizing the police force:
this is also a relatively easy thing to accomplish - start off with the state contracting out for police services.  All the current police forces could be spun off non-profitly as Mike described above for fire departments.

privatizing police is really not a scarey thing if you think about it:  private police would have to compete with others to provide the best and most efficient service - no more donut buddies or 10 police cars to make a simple traffic stop.  Private police would have no more rights than ordinairy citizens and would have to respect all citizens rights in the performance of their duties...

BUT, this is one of those subjects which most folks (even most libertarians) have a (well deserved) built up fear of and it will be one of the last things to accomplish - but it will come.... eventually

michael
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Jhogun

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Re:Police/Fire
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2004, 08:23:13 am »

sheesh Mike! forget Grafton, I wanna move to where you are!

in regards to privatizing the police force:
this is also a relatively easy thing to accomplish - start off with the state contracting out for police services.  All the current police forces could be spun off non-profitly as Mike described above for fire departments.

privatizing police is really not a scarey thing if you think about it:  private police would have to compete with others to provide the best and most efficient service - no more donut buddies or 10 police cars to make a simple traffic stop.  Private police would have no more rights than ordinairy citizens and would have to respect all citizens rights in the performance of their duties...

BUT, this is one of those subjects which most folks (even most libertarians) have a (well deserved) built up fear of and it will be one of the last things to accomplish - but it will come.... eventually

michael

As a side note, just so you know, traffic stops are statistically the single most dangerous incidents faced by police in terms of injury/death to officers (followed by domestic violence calls). That is why they tend to have more backup on these than seems necessary.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Police/Fire
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2004, 08:57:25 am »

sheesh Mike! forget Grafton, I wanna move to where you are!

It is nice in many ways. In other ways, it isn't.  The CC&Rs are pretty restrictive. The community vision is minimizing lawns, using the woods between homes to amplify the feeling of remoteness. Lots range from 1-5 acres. You have to submit any construction plans to the community association for approval, and can only cut windfall or trees less than 4" in dia without association approval..

So, if you want a nice stable community with great amenities, some community oversight, and without any Zackniacs, Eastman is an excellent option. If you want to do what you want on  your own property, it isn't for you.
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