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Author Topic: Living Comparision  (Read 7928 times)

nuklhead

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Living Comparision
« on: February 11, 2004, 08:56:48 pm »

Greetings!  :)  Could someone please give me the run down on costs, the deal on taxes, etc?  I've got a family of three and I'm being very paranoid because we did a blind move to NC and have been paying for it ever since. :'(  Within the next 5 years(give or take) we will be moving out of NC.  Where to go is the question.  
Another question is hows the general business climate?  I'm a certified Harley Specialist who's looking to open my own independant shop.......
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2004, 09:41:47 am »

NC is very expensive, especially in terms of taxes.  Even CT is better than NC, so you can bet NH is a lot better. ;)  I'll let a resident of NH answer any specific questions about NH, though.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2004, 11:10:33 am »

NH has a Bike Week every June, attracts 300,000-400,000 bikers from all over.  Last summer when I was in Lancaster there were lots of bikers zipping around.

Lot's of beautiful scenic roads to ride, especially up north.  Business climate is pretty positive, especially compared to other states up that way.  Believe you could make a right comfortable living with a Bike Shop in NH!

Dave
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2004, 12:05:47 pm »

Yeah, Harley's are pretty popular in this state, as is motorcycling in general, which is surprising given the climate. There is a Harley dealership in West Lebanon, and I think one or two in the southern part of the state.

BikerBill, a member in Weare, is a Harley nut, and I know a guy in Dorchester who has his own shop.
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nuklhead

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2004, 12:07:40 pm »

Thanks for the info Dave & Jason.  :D  I really need to have something concrete on the $$$$ front.  When we did the blind move, we were "told" how inexpensive Western NC was to live.... Course the same people that said that have moved on to bigger and better.  
I really would like to have a NH resident give me some information..

Thanks once again!

nuklhead
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SethA

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2004, 02:56:20 pm »

The short answer is that taxes, except property tax, are low: there is no state income tax on salaries and no general sales tax. Real estate prices and property taxes are fairly high, of course it depends on the area, etc.

A good site for information on New Hampshire is:

http://www.nh.gov/egov.html

Make sure you look at the residents section on the left side of the page, not just the items listed in the middle section.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 08:38:37 pm »

nuklhead,

I've been in Dover, since Feb 2, so surely no expert, came from Pittsburgh, PA.  I'm told that Dover is one of the more expensive areas here?  Well have found the housing, or renting cost are a bit steep, but everything else seems reasonable, at least compared too.  Keep in mind the bulk of your taxes are property, so housing costs are a bit high.  My understanding that up north the housing is cheaper, but not the jobs, so bottom line it is a trade off.  If you are looking at a specific area would suggest you contact the Pioneer Directory at freestate@hotmail.com.  Cal should be able to direct you to someone in the area you are looking to relocate.

Dave
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BillG

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 10:09:35 pm »

Quote
Keep in mind the bulk of your taxes are property, so housing costs are a bit high

Dave-

just curious...what do high housing costs have to do with property taxes?
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 11:04:06 pm »

If the land lord has to pay the taxes...Hey guess what happens, he passes his cost on to you!  Higher renting costs!  All taxes are ulitimately paid by the end user.  Hello real world! :)
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BillG

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2004, 06:25:49 am »

If the land lord has to pay the taxes...Hey guess what happens, he passes his cost on to you!  Higher renting costs!  All taxes are ulitimately paid by the end user.  Hello real world! :)

hmmm...none of these economist seem to agree:

Adam Smith
"A tax upon ground-rents would not raise the rents of houses. It would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent."



David Ricardo
"A tax on rent would affect rent only; it would fall wholly on landlords, and could not be shifted to any class of consumers."



John Stuart Mill
"A tax on rent falls wholly on the landlord. There are no means by which he can shift the burden upon any one else."

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JonM

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2004, 08:15:55 am »

Then why does my rent go up when taxes increase?
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2004, 09:01:05 am »

Well don't consider myself among the great thinkers, but I was a landlord.  Personally I developed a system.  If the taxes went up say $10, well the next time the lease came around I raised the rent $20, that way I was able to stay ahead of the tax cycle.

Wondering if our learned friends were ever landlords? ???

But back to the comparisions.  It appears to me, that like most places the housing costs are highest in NH were the best jobs are, most of the other costs are similiar, and no sales tax is a real winner.  I just bought a few things, spent $500.  Well that is a cool savings of $35., from my old world in PA.  So thinking that will buy a fair number of breakfast specials, at $2.99, at the little diner downstairs! ;D
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BlueLu

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2004, 09:58:20 am »

If the land lord has to pay the taxes...Hey guess what happens, he passes his cost on to you!  Higher renting costs!  All taxes are ulitimately paid by the end user.  Hello real world! :)
hmmm...none of these economist seem to agree:
Adam Smith
<SNIP>
David Ricardo
<SNIP>
John Stuart Mill
<SNIP>

I think these economists, who were writing about conditions 200+ years ago had their minds on a rent situation with a terribly inelastic demand.  In other words it took a very long time to replace a renter.  This was true because of the low level and high expense of technology, transportation, communication, etc.  And they were also writing about a time when inflation was controlled by everybody using hard-money or barter.

In the modern world, rent can be passed on, though not all of it, because demand for rental property is relatively elastic.  A new tax changes supply (amount of a thing supplied at given costs), by adding an additional cost to providing the thing.  The amount that can be passed on to consumers is then dictated by how people's demand schedules mesh with the change in providers' supply schedules.  This is always true, though it was not evident to Mill, Ricardo, and Smith, because even a slight change would push properties right off of most renters' demand schedules.

And then, the analysis is complicated by fiat money inflation.  Since we live under perpetual inflation, rents are expected to increase over time, and it makes it easier to appear to include more than the tax increase in the rent bill, only because, rent was expected to rise in response to inflation pressures anyway.
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Ogre11

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2004, 03:16:37 pm »

I live in NC, until recently the highest-taxed area of NC (Charlotte), and I'm planning my move to NH now.  It is very difficult to make exact calculations in any effective way, I have found.

For example, if you use one the standard moving calculators that can be found online, nearly all areas of NH suggest a much higher standard of living.  For example, $50K in NC equates to $61K in Nashua, $89K in Hanover, and $60K in Derry.  So if I'm making $50K now, to maintain the same standard of living, I need a job that pays $60K in Derry.

But I'm willing to bet those numbers don't account for income tax levels.

So if I'm making $50K in NC, I'm paying about 7% in Income taxes, taking home $46K.  That same $50K salary in NH would take home $50K.  So putting the $46K back in the calculator, Derry now appears at $55K.

So...if the same job pays the same relative rate, a $50K job in NC gives me $46K take-home, while the same job in Derry, NH should give $60K take-home.  But...

Of my take-home, I'm paying at least 6.5% in sales tax.  I pay more at restaurants (up to 8%, depending on location).  And car registration is cheaper.  Property taxes are about the same rate, but the house values in NH are drastically higher than those in NC (In fact, that's my biggest stumbling block to moving.  I have a rather large house with an extended family in residence.  To get nearly the same size house in most areas of NH, I'd have to pay 3-4 times the amount I paid.  And how can I do that with a small increase in salary?  I have NO idea).

So I think what you're looking for is far too complex to measure realistically.  There's different rates that have to be paid for income tax, city taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, use taxes, license fees, gas taxes, and nearly every other tax that exists.

Overall, in general, most tax rates are lower in NH.  It is my belief that when I move, I will have more control of where more of my earnings are spent.  I could be wrong, at least at first, but I'm sure over time as the Freedom activists increase in size and scope, I will certainly have more freedom and more of my own money to spend as I see fit.
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freedomroad

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Re:Living Comparision
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2004, 02:06:02 am »

Property taxes are about the same rate, but the house values in NH are drastically higher than those in NC (In fact, that's my biggest stumbling block to moving.  I have a rather large house with an extended family in residence.  To get nearly the same size house in most areas of NH, I'd have to pay 3-4 times the amount I paid.  And how can I do that with a small increase in salary?  I have NO idea).

First, you have to understand that you will live in a smaller house.  It is worth it, for the freedom of your family.

If you want to save money, move to a small town 20-35 min (yes, it will be longer in the winter) from Concord, Lebanon, Laconia, or Keene.  Often times, these houses cost much less (and you will have lots more power over your local government and live a more free area, anyway) than houses in the biggest NH cities.
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