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Author Topic: What about being an unwelcome presence?  (Read 42825 times)

stpeter

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2002, 10:01:29 pm »



Here is one measure to gauge just how likely one could hear the above allusions to "native". These are the percentages of residents born in their state of residence. ... Feel free to add your interpretations and experience to this.

38.1% Alaska (35.6% in 1990)
42.5% Wyoming (43.4% in 1990)
43.3% New Hampshire (45.8% in 1990)

47.2% Idaho (52.1% in 1990)
48.3% Delaware (51.9% in 1990)
54.3% Vermont (59.0% in 1990)
56.1% Montana (60.0% in 1990)

67.3% Maine (70.6% in 1990)
68.1% South Dakota (71.0% in1990)
72.5% North Dakota (74.3% in 1990)

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/BasicFactsServlet?_lang=en

Hi Joe, this rings true for me (sorry for the delayed reply, I've been working 80 hours a week so I'm just now catching up on a month+ of posts). I moved to Maine when I was 10 (from NY) and our family was always seen as "from away". I think a place with a more transient/mobile population would work much better. Alaska and Wyoming are looking great on these measures, as on so many others (low population, no income tax, etc. etc.). NH again is a possibility but that large population is troublesome....
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catsRus

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2002, 12:19:25 pm »

The masses in general are pretty afraid of change so I would think there would be resistance anywhere the FSP would go.
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Tyler

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2002, 09:51:27 pm »

Joe,

I think you're absolutely correct in this matter. The powers that be in these states are not going to be too kindly disposed towards you, some more than others. I think you folks, therefore, would do better out West, where at least they're used to having oddballs (no offence intended, but that's what a good percent of people will think of you as) and refugees from other states coming in.
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eoffshore

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2002, 10:54:11 am »

Wrong perspective. It is the communist, socialist, theocratic fascist, green nazi, that is not welcome in the USA. All totalitarian ideologies are contrary to the ideas of this country. There are hundreds of other countries in the world that offer these "utopias". Go there.

You will leave us this one free country.
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motita

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2002, 07:19:33 pm »

I moved to NH from California a little over a year ago.  I've never encountered a native born attitude - most of my neighbors just moved to my town less than 5 years ago.  They are friendly here and one of our selectmen is a Libertarian.  The Libertarian party certainly has much more of a presence here than in CA.  There are houses available, I see them for sale everywhere (and I looked everywhere for one when moving here) and new houses are going up everyday.  There are 46 acres for sale just down the street from me for $175,000 - a bit pricey for NH, but it's a good location.  And the state motto is 'Live Free or Die' - they have that engraved on every license plate so how could they not be friendly to  the goals of FSP?
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freedomroad

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2002, 07:06:48 am »

IAnd the state motto is 'Live Free or Die' - they have that engraved on every license plate so how could they not be friendly to  the goals of FSP?

In some Southern states the Confederate Battle Flag still plays a roll in some of the state flags but sometimes 40%+ of the people in those states dislike the Confederate Battle Flag and the freedom it stands for.  Even America talks about freedom on some of it's money and it's important buildings but clearly many people in America are anti-freedom.  Clearly, NH is becoming less free-loving as most states are.  It just takes time for the anti-freedom people to gather strength.  So words that sound good might mean nothing in practice.  Just look at the U.S. Constitution or any other country's constitution.
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Robert H.

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2002, 08:13:07 am »

So words that sound good might mean nothing in practice.  Just look at the U.S. Constitution or any other country's constitution.

An excellent point, Keith!   :)  If the phrases emblazed in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and other Founding documents held true for modern America, this discussion would not likely be taking place.

Zxcv

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2003, 07:21:52 pm »

Joe, Oregon had a big resistance to Californians coming in, esp. back in the 70's:

Quote
Wrote McCall's biographer Brent Walth (Fire At Eden's Gate) of the famous governor: "Although he rarely repeated his 'visit, but don't stay' line, McCall found that by 1973 the quip had helped define his governorship... when a local humorist wrote about a wall Oregon intended to build around the state, a citizen sent McCall the article with the note attached, reading, 'You didn't!'

"'We can't,' McCall wrote back, 'but sometimes I wish we could, don't you?'"

It took Gov. Atiyeh most of his eight years in office to fix the image that Oregon was closed to business. Walth wrote: "Atiyeh remembered the official border sign welcoming Californians on Interstate 5. The sign read, 'Welcome To Oregon, We Hope You Enjoy Your Visit.' To Atiyeh the sign implied that Californians--or anyone else--were not welcome to stay."
http://znetprime.znetsolutions.com/brainstorm.nsf/58ecf2884f2cc2ec8825678b0081b8be/d192b2736a52e47088256ac600763c9f?OpenDocument

The resistance to Californians has dropped significantly since then. I don't know how to find the percentage of natives back in the 70's for Oregon, it may support your argument about the middling percentages being the bad ones.

Personally I think the resistance has a lot more to do with the kinds of people coming in, if they want to change the culture, etc., rather than the percentage of natives left. Californians are going to be unwelcome anywhere (deservedly so - who wants to be like them?   ;) )  But I'd hope we will be more accepted. We will be looking for one of the most free states, with the aim of making it more free (or at least stopping the statist trend) thus reinforcing the local culture in a way, and most people in such a state should appreciate that.

As to running for office, I just don't think that is going to fly in most cases, except where FSPers are a local majority. We really need to find a home-grown standard-bearer.

The other thing we have going for us, is that we will be indistinguishable from others, in a lot of venues. For example, no one can tell where you were born if you write a letter to the editor (if you've taken any effort at all to acclimate). No one will know if you are just a worker-bee in a campaign; it won't be an issue. No one can tell if the money from our think tank comes from natives or not. There are a lot of places it just doesn't matter. Running for office is an exception.
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Kelton

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2003, 06:25:43 am »

Quote
Californians are going to be unwelcome anywhere (deservedly so - who wants to be like them? ;) )

I'll make sure to find a way to replace my California license plates with some 'good ones' before making the move, if that's the case ;D

One little personal anecdote about this subject:

 A man that became my friend moved into town back when I used to live in Texas.  I will point out that the state has a very large native- resident population and a strong pride in being a Texan, at least I know that in South Texas it does. For example, people were not in the least bit amused when I told them I wished there were some pretty mountains in the scenery.  My friend, on the other hand, told me how he had no problem adjusting when the locals pointed out his 'funny accent' he just quickly said, "I sure am glad to be back, I've been away from Texas for too long!" and they promptly welcomed him 'back'  - he had only ever lived there briefly and as an infant  :)    
« Last Edit: January 19, 2003, 06:35:15 am by exitus »
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

JasonPSorens

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2003, 03:23:40 pm »

heh heh  That's a clever little strategy. ;)  My mom was raised out West, maybe I can parlay that into acceptance somehow.  I think Westerners also tend to be more accepting of Southerners than Northeasterners & Californians.  That's just my impression.
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Robert H.

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2003, 06:54:43 am »

I think Westerners also tend to be more accepting of Southerners than Northeasterners & Californians.  That's just my impression.

There's a kinship between the two regions in that both are generally perceived as "backward," particularly by northeasterners and California's "Hollywood types."  When such people think of the west, they seem to think "Ruby Ridge," and when they think of the South, they seem to think "Deliverance."  There are exceptions of course, but these are the pop culture stereotypes.

Westerners are generally a tolerant lot, but they'll probably be more immediately accepting of southerners; they're too used to other folks looking down on them.

scornucopia

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2003, 06:49:49 am »

As a native Vermonter, I can assure you that we would fight a conservative invasion tooth and nail -- and we would win. Don't even try it.
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exitus

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2003, 10:23:26 am »

As a native Vermonter, I can assure you that we would fight a conservative invasion tooth and nail -- and we would win. Don't even try it.

Conservative?
Invasion?

Our membership entering Vermont over five years and resulting in only representing less than 4% of the population,  some invasion.

Our entire membership believes that the maximum role of government should be limited to the enforcement against force and fraud. That is hardly a definition of anyone with the label of conservative by today's standards.

By many standards, Vermont is already a good fit for our membership, except its strong bent towards socialism is our main concern, is this where we will be fought "tooth and nail"?  Please enlighten us more scornucopia.
 
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". . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue” -- U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

vermass

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2003, 02:04:11 pm »

    Scornucopia, if you have a dictionary look up the word "liberal". You will find that it describes Libertarians except for the part about being  "progressive" our ideas are about as old as THIS country! Of course that is still more progresive than the ideas of todays so-called liberals whose ideas are thousands of years old and go back to the times when the Emperor will take care of you; hail the Emperor. Than it was the king will take care of you; hail to the king. Simply replace Emperor/king with government and you have the pollitical philosophy of todays liberals. Musn't let the peasants run the country you know.
    My fellow FPSer's, comments have been made that the WY religious conservatives may be a difficult pollitical opposition for us. As a native New Englander I have this to say:  We still have more in common with them than the New England "Liberals".
     I was attached to a unit from TN when I was in Desert Storm. They couldn't stand any of the Yankees that had been attached to their unit...except me! It's not the Yankees or Westerners or Easterners people can't stand, it's the enemy. The NE liberals won't like us period. The WY religious conservatives might think us amoral. I  was born and live in MA and there's tons of people who were born right here in this state that I consider enemies of freedom and wish they'd leave. After all than I wouldn't have too move anywhere!
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Zxcv

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Re:What about being an unwelcome presence?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2003, 02:02:04 pm »

Since we're doing "acceptance" anecdotes, I'll add this one. I got this on another list, where a California resident asked about moving to Idaho (I've already posted this on the Idaho thread, I think). Here is the response he got:
Quote
If you do decide to move to Idaho, the first thing you need to do is get the California plates off your cars and other vehicles you bring with you. When I moved there, all of my tires were cut after only four days. They really don't like "Californicaters" Once the California label is removed, You will be "one of the family". The first year I lived there, I was in a ditch during a snow squall near Eagle, and not one single car drove past me. EVERY single car that drove up to me stopped to help me get unstuck. They are the most friendly people on the planet. When I got laid off in the winter from my construction job, I came home to find a full side of cut, frozen, and wrapped beef, and about fifty pounds of corn on my porch with a note that just said, "If someday you can help sombody else out, just do what you can." There was no signature. Idaho is a great place to live.
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