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Author Topic: Music in the Free State  (Read 14597 times)

Morpheus

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2004, 05:37:26 am »

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Good point.  A death metal band from Norway is facing possible criminal charges in Poland for "causing religious offense":

Right. And the Chinese Regime is extremely anti-sexual, barring any form of entertainment that is "too racy" or "too controversial". This is a regime which PROHIBITS religion and is explicitly ATHEISTIC.

But who said that you need a God to be a prude...

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Granted, resistance to authority isn't unique to libertarianism, but it's not a Communist ideal.

Yes, it is, if that [perceived] authority is Capitalism. Of course, Capitalism is the epitome of economic freedom, and a Capitalistic Nation is very likely to be Libertarian in the social sense as well.

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People falling in line and complying with what they've been told is a huge reason why America is so non-libertarian today.  Questioning authority is essential to libertarianism.

Agreed. But what fools like Rage Against the Machine fail to realize is that this Nation is already knee-deep in Socialism, and it is sinking even deeper by the passing of each day.
Or the Nation is simply not Socialistic ENOUGH for them- which is, in actuality, more likely than the above.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 05:53:40 am by Morpheus »
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2004, 05:44:43 am »

There are many definitions to socialism. Don't just pick the one that you think appropriate.

socialism

\So"cial*ism\, n. [Cf. F. socialisme.] A theory or system of social reform which contemplates a complete reconstruction of society, with a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor. In popular usage, the term is often employed to indicate any lawless, revolutionary social scheme.

> No Marxist could write music like Morello and Co

How do you assume that?

Because I know how Marxists think, ever heard of Social Realism? Rage Against The Machine isn't Social Realism. The songs aren't about the heroic victory of the unified working class over the evil bourgoisie.

> and some of the songs provide a reasonably accurate if not slightly left biased critique american government policy.

Such as what?

I believe that the poster above me has given one example. Here are some others:

(From 'Know Your Enemy')

Fight the war, fuck the norm
Now I got no patience
So sick of complacence
With the D the E the F the I the A the N the C the E
Mind of a revolutionary
So clear the lane
The finger to the land of the chains
What? The land of the free?
Whoever told you that is your enemy?

(From 'War Within A Breath')

Every official that come in
Cripples us leaves us maimed
Silent and tamed
And with our flesh and bones
He builds his homes

(From 'Calm Like A Bomb')

A prison to fill
Theres a countrys soul that reads post no bills
Theres a strike and a line of cops outside of tha mill
Theres a right to obey
And a right to kill

And in general they speak out against American neo-imperialism, the ending of which is a libertarian goal.

P.S. Did you not once say that you support the basic premise of the U.N.?

Nice tactic, you are correct that I did once say that.
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2004, 05:48:50 am »


Agreed. But what fools like Rage Against the Machine fail to realize is that this Nation is already knee-deep in Socialism, and it is sinking even deeper by the passing of each day.

Or the Nation is simply not Socialistic ENOUGH for them- which is, in actuality, more likely than the above.


They sing about:

* American Neo-imperialism
* Government subsidies for private enterprise
* The encroaching police state

I would have thought most libertarians would be anti those things. Furthermore there is a difference between authoritarian National Socialism (of the kind practiced in Germany and now taking root in the US) and anti-authoritarian socialism.
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Morpheus

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2004, 06:17:04 am »

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There are many definitions to socialism. Don't just pick the one that you think appropriate.

Fair enough. But the definition of which you have just provided follows the same basic premise, save for "In popular usage, the term is often employed to indicate any lawless, revolutionary social scheme", which could actually be a description of Libertarianism. But I'll avoid that like the plague...

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And in general they speak out against American neo-imperialism, the ending of which is a libertarian goal.

Fair enough again. I agree with that as well.

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Nice tactic, you are correct that I did once say that.

Then you support a Socialistic machine which seeks to become the Government of Earth?

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I would have thought most libertarians would be anti those things.

We are. But pardon me if I would rather distance myself as far as possible, WHEN possible [As there are times in which coalitions must be built with certain people on certain issues who, beyond those issues, we oppose vehemently], from people like RATM- despite our agreement on what I will admit is probably a significant number of issues. I have asserted many times before on this Forum that there is indeed common ground between Left-Liberalism and Libertarianism, just as there is common ground between Right-Conservatism and Libertarianism. If you would ever read my earlier posts, you would find that I decry the Right-Wing bias inherent within many Libertarians.

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Furthermore there is a difference between authoritarian National Socialism (of the kind practiced in Germany and now taking root in the US) and anti-authoritarian socialism.

Authoritarian Socialism is GOVERNMENTAL Socialism; in other words, Socialism established by the force of Government[/i]. Anti-Authoritarian [Or Libertarian, if one dares] Socialism- or Anarcho-Socialism- on a wide scale is impossible, as human nature, indeed, Nature ITSELF is essentially Capitalistic. However, it can work within small groups/communities through willing individuals, and I certanly believe that people have the Right to organize in such fashions as long as they do not violate the Life, Liberty, and Property of anyone else via Force, Fraud, and Theft- which would include, verily, the coercion of others into their Socialism.
I reserve the Right to put a bullet into the head of anyone who would in any way attempt to collectivize me. I hope you know that...
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2004, 06:57:53 am »

Then you support a Socialistic machine which seeks to become the Government of Earth?

Again, you are taking it to mean I support the UN. I don't support the UN in its current form. I support the ideal of the UN, the premise of the UN which is that every person on this earth should have the same rights to freedom of speech, association etc. as any one american citizen.

If you would ever read my earlier posts, you would find that I decry the Right-Wing bias inherent within many Libertarians.

Excellent.

Authoritarian Socialism is GOVERNMENTAL Socialism; in other words, Socialism established by the force of Government. Anti-Authoritarian [Or Libertarian, if one dares] Socialism- or Anarcho-Socialism- on a wide scale is impossible, as human nature, indeed, Nature ITSELF is essentially Capitalistic. However, it can work within small groups/communities through willing individuals, and I certanly believe that people have the Right to organize in such fashions as long as they do not violate the Life, Liberty, and Property of anyone else via Force, Fraud, and Theft- which would include, verily, the coercion of others into their Socialism.
I reserve the Right to put a bullet into the head of anyone who would in any way attempt to collectivize me. I hope you know that...


You say that nature itself is capitalistic. I dispute this point and hope you aren't confusing capitalism with the free market. In the 'Wealth of Nations' Adam Smith describes capitalism as a system where land is owned and controlled by landlords, property (meaning the means of production) is owned and controlled by capitalists and the workers work. This isn't nature.  

I like the idea of the 'Invisible hand of the market', but as for landlords owning and controlling land I have grave reservations as the land of the earth can only belong to everyone, like the air and the sea. No-one person or set of individuals made it, why should any one set of individuals own it?

I also reserve the right to put a bullet in the head/knee/back of anyone trying to collectivize me or you.
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2004, 07:13:58 am »

ERK!

I just realised that this is totally off topic, want to leave it here or take it elsewhere?
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Morpheus

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2004, 07:27:35 am »

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You say that nature itself is capitalistic. I dispute this point and hope you aren't confusing capitalism with the free market. In the 'Wealth of Nations' Adam Smith describes capitalism as a system where land is owned and controlled by landlords, property (meaning the means of production) is owned and controlled by capitalists and the workers work. This isn't nature.

I do not think within the definition. I accept 'Capitalism' as it has been usurped by advocates of the free Market, but I note the differences of definitions.
If Capitalism is to be spoken of in terms of commerce, or commercialism, then I would contend that it IS the way of Nature, especially if one is to consider Social Darwinism. I'll admit that in this I am sort of embracing the evil stigma placed upon Capitalism by Socialists, but I actually rather enjoy it as it seems fitting [To me as a cold, black-hearted bastard that is].

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I like the idea of the 'Invisible hand of the market', but as for landlords owning and controlling land I have grave reservations as the land of the earth can only belong to everyone, like the air and the sea. No-one person or set of individuals made it, why should any one set of individuals own it?

Ha. Since when do our non-human counterparts care about that, my friend? They take what they will!
I think that you're confusing me with Anarcho-Capitalists; I am actually a Minarchist with a strong desire to delve into Ultra-Minimalistic theory when I have the time to do so. I, too, have my concerns, as Zack Bass has hilariously illustrated in the past, of being closed in and not being allowed exit. Obviously, if SOME form of Government is to exist, then there must be SOME Governmental/Public land, and I am in favour of Right to Passage Law in regards to roads, which I believe should be privatized.
The scope of Geo-Libertarianism is when you begin to lose me- completely. I firmly believe in the private ownership of land. In regards to air and water, massive polluting should definitely be punished, as those entities which would engage in such bring great harm to us all, thereby initiating force. But Public ownership?? Government is the greatest polluter of all. I resist it. As such, I am BillG's worst nightmare.
Please do not tell me that you are with him.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 11:36:01 am by Morpheus »
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LeRuineur6

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2004, 10:58:05 am »

Mostly industrial/gothic music.

Here is my band ranking list from Launch.com.  It's really useful!  :)

My favorites band BY FAR is Nine Inch Nails.

Other bands I like, somewhat ranked by preference are:

Gravity Kills
A Perfect Circle
Ministry
Prodigy
Evanescence
Stabbing Westward
Orgy
Pearl Jam
Marilyn Manson
Rob Zombie
White Zombie
Soundgarden
Propellerheads
Offspring (don't ask me why)
Green Day (don't ask me why)
Garbage (don't ask me why)

Some other somewhat okay bands:

Bush
Live
Stone Temple Pilots

And on Launch.com I've BANNED over 1200 other bands from ever playing again on my Launch Station.  I have a very specific taste in music.   ;D
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Elizabeth

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2004, 12:16:35 pm »

If you're over 21, please don't post in this board.  Thanks.
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LeRuineur6

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2004, 12:20:47 pm »

If you're over 21, please don't post in this board.  Thanks.

Sorry about that.  I'm 22 and I only posted once because I know the guidelines are supposed to pretty much ban anyone else from the board.
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Elizabeth

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2004, 12:24:15 pm »

If you're over 21, please don't post in this board.  Thanks.

Sorry about that.  I'm 22 and I only posted once because I know the guidelines are supposed to pretty much ban anyone else from the board.

No biggie, just a friendly reminder!  ;)
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citizen_142002

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2004, 04:56:30 pm »

Maralyn Manson
Mettallica
Godsmack
Disturbed
Greenday
Blink 182
Dropkick Murphey's
Flogging Molly
Rammstein
Alice Cooper
Motley Crue
Steven Lynch
Pennywise
Rush
Neil Young
Nirvana
Tool
Rob Zombie
Some OK bands...
Rage Against the Machine
Mudvayne
Slipknot
NOFX
P.S. If anyone has any good German metal or Industrial MP3's I'd love to get my hands on some. Oh yeah, when is a true Libertarian band gonna emerge and kick some ass?? Not to say that Neil Peart of Rush didn't make a few good Libertarian songs.
P.S.
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2004, 05:02:17 am »

I'd say Pennywise were pretty libertarian.
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snoogs

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2004, 09:27:05 pm »

Tool and Stone Temple Pilots own you all.
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5pectre

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Re:Music in the Free State
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2004, 06:24:25 am »

Tool and Stone Temple Pilots own you all.

Yeah, I've seen Tool in concert, they own totally.
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