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Author Topic: Why join?  (Read 5430 times)

Fitz

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Why join?
« on: December 16, 2003, 03:06:12 am »

I completely respect and understand the significance of this project, but what advantage is there to actually joining, rather than just moving to New Hampshire and bringing one's Constitutionalist vote? It seems ironic that privacy advocates would willingly sign a list identifying themselves as such.

Fitz
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RhythmStar

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2003, 05:38:52 am »

If someone wishes to be a Stealth Porcupine, I'm sure we will be happy to have their vote when the freedom issues and/or candidates are on the ballot.  However, out in the open has its benefits as well -- if all the current members had elected the stealth option, how would you have known the FSP even existed?

:)

RS
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lloydbob1

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2003, 08:34:15 am »

Very good, RS.  One other important reason for actually joining is that many people who have joined have agreed to move only when the number gets to 20,000, so, the total numbers of registered Porcs is important.
I am moving to NH  20,00 or not, because, I am impressed with NH and the core of libertarians already living there.
Lloyd
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2003, 10:54:46 am »

LLoyd is spot on. The rules are that you only HAVE to move once our membership has reached 20k. If you move but don't join, you only help guarantee that everybody else WONT move.
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cathleeninsc

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2003, 11:45:52 am »

 I know that NH is freer than most of the rest of the country. I expect the liberty movement in NH to grow. That liberty and progress is our only real draw that we have. I think that it is enough of a draw, with the proper exposure, to gain thousands of activists.

I know that there will be movers who do not sign. We may not make 20,000 and it would be regretful if some signers are looking for an excuse not to move rather than a reason to move.

Cathleen in SC
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Ogre11

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2003, 12:07:39 pm »

I joined for the prestige and the fame!   ;D
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rdeacon

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2003, 03:01:58 pm »

Actually I resent the "stealth porcupine" approach.  Supposedly there are 219 FSP members from NH.  I've met maybe 2 dozen.  Where are all of these other members?  As I've said before we need a central organization for activism purposes.  Right now I'd be willing to take people like Fitz just because we are hurting and we need recruits, but ideally everybody who joins should be placed on an activist contact list - if we are going to succeed we need central planning and organization.  Just imagine what kind of demonstrations we could organize if we could count on as little as 10% of the membership - thats 2,000 people, one hell of a crowd.  With 20,000 activists we could cover every polling place in the state with not just one guy holding a sign for FSP candidates, but an entire group cheering and demonstrating as people walk past.  These are realistic goals, provided that we empower this organization and enable group activity.

In other words, we can't resign ourselves to the 80/20 rule.

Fitz, I'd love for you to come to NH and bring a Constitutionalist vote with you.  I'd rather that you agree to a little more than just placing a vote, but at the end of the day every pro-FSP vote is a good vote.  If you plan to move, get in touch with me and I'll help you out with some real estate/mortgage/mover contacts.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2003, 03:32:12 pm »

Actually I resent the "stealth porcupine" approach.  Supposedly there are 219 FSP members from NH.  I've met maybe 2 dozen.  Where are all of these other members?

You are exactly right here. The whole attitude of the BOD is IMHO contributing to the slow growth in membership and the slow growth in FSP activism here because they are impeding our ability to network with other members. When you join a group, your expectations of privacy within the group are somewhat less, especially if it is a political activist oriented group, than as an anonymous member of the general public who is not a member.

State leaders need to know who the members are in their state, and they need to network with these people. The FSP is supposed to be 20 thousand ACTIVISTS, no ciphers.
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RhythmStar

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2003, 12:23:34 am »

>>20,000

Well, I must admit I had sorta misplaced that number -- probably since I'm not waiting for it myself.   Anyway, yes -- making the 20K so everyone can be encouraged to move is the very best reason to NOT go stealth.

Join today!

RS
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RidleyReport

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2003, 01:35:27 am »

<<Why join?>>

Well, sorry if this is a little crass, but think of it this way.  Our "signed members" number is not an Arabic numeral but a tally.  Each digit is a middle finger pointed at the Feds, the authoritarians in your current state and whoever else out there is pissing and moaning that this can't be done.  We could use another good middle finger.  And you'll have the satisfaction of having just flipped the bird to all those moneygrubbing authoritarians.

Not only that, but this fine looking, anonymous middle digit of yours will be visible for hundreds of new people to see every day (in the form of a number) for the next 7 years.

If you have felt furious and powerless for years, unable to impede the nation's long march toward serfdom, that signature, that middle finger is you standing up and saying "enough!" at the top of your voice instead of whispering it in the shadows.

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Kelton Baker

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2003, 02:43:49 am »

Fitz,
If you agree with our aims, our guidelines and our Statement of Intent,  make the pledge and join!  

We will respect your privacy;  for one,  we do not publish our list to anyone but ourselves,  and hardly even amongst ourselves at that, (you ask anyone who has attempted to gain access to even a local list of members, you will surely see we are taking many steps to guard people's privacy) sometimes people complain it is too much.   We are working on some features to further respect privacy, such as a secure-socket-layer for member sign-ups that should be implemented in about a month or so, or sooner, if we are lucky.

We also give people the option to opt-out of being fully involved with Free State members in their area,  though we encourage people to meet and greet with others,  we also accept curmudgeons and other non-socializing activists to join their efforts with ours.  
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rdeacon

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2003, 04:44:11 pm »

Agreed!  Unfortunately the libertarian stereotype of "armchair politics" has affected my biases.  If we want activists, we need to make sure that they're going to be activists and not just voters.  But I've bitched about this issue all over these boards, no need in kicking the dead horse again...  ;)

Actually I resent the "stealth porcupine" approach.  Supposedly there are 219 FSP members from NH.  I've met maybe 2 dozen.  Where are all of these other members?

You are exactly right here. The whole attitude of the BOD is IMHO contributing to the slow growth in membership and the slow growth in FSP activism here because they are impeding our ability to network with other members. When you join a group, your expectations of privacy within the group are somewhat less, especially if it is a political activist oriented group, than as an anonymous member of the general public who is not a member.

State leaders need to know who the members are in their state, and they need to network with these people. The FSP is supposed to be 20 thousand ACTIVISTS, no ciphers.
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<Patrick>

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2003, 10:27:07 pm »

Quote
But I've bitched about this issue all over these boards, no need in kicking the dead horse again...  

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Fitz

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2003, 05:41:39 am »

"Right now I'd be willing to take people like Fitz just because we are hurting..."
 
Well, if that's not a warm welcome, I don't know what it is!

No, I'm just kidding. I understand the point. The trouble for me is an automatic negative response to doing ANYTHING because others are doing it. The idea of moving to a freer, more Constitutional environment is a wonderful one, but the premise of FSP is essentially having to wait to see what others do; something completely against my nature, especially when it's regarding something as significant as relocating.

"Fitz, I'd love for you to come to NH and bring a Constitutionalist vote with you.  I'd rather that you agree to a little more than just placing a vote, but at the end of the day every pro-FSP vote is a good vote.  If you plan to move, get in touch with me and I'll help you out with some real estate/mortgage/mover contacts." RDeacon

That's a very nice offer. I may just take you up on it. Thank you.

That is the sort of response that was at the heart of my post. Here are two more questions:

1. Are there any plans for organization in NH for FSPers, activism, business networks, militia, etc?

(I have a small business that is only now starting to get off of the ground. If I move, I lose all of my income. It wouldn't be so bad if I had capital or a home, but no. What I do have is a love of liberty, strong ethics, and an entrepreneurial spirit (or maybe just a hatred of indentured servitude of being an employee) Moving would be a hell of a lot easier if there were a network, or at least a forum or something of FSPers already in NH where I could advertise, look for folks to outsource to,  support other members, etc. Not to mention just go shooting with someone else and learn the lay of the land, so to speak. It seems to me that the majority of all of our ancestors came to this nation because they knew people already here. I don't have siblings or cousins in NH, but would I have fellow FSPers?)

2. Would a viable compromise be moving first, or solidifying all of the logistical plans and then signing?
(My small business is only 4 years old and I'm still struggling. This is a critical phase of my life and if I'm going to do it, I need to do it soon. I wouldn't sign light-heartedly but the longer I grow my business, the more anchored I become here. If I'm going to start all over again, I had better do it soon, and I'm not about to let all of my plans rest in the hands of some abstract 15,000 people! Is there a happy medium?)

Fitz
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Morpheus

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Re:Why join?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2003, 06:50:48 am »

Where do you live? Through research, you would likely come to find that New Hampshire would be much preferable to your current State of residence. There is a reason as to why New Hampshire has been targeted by the FSP, afterall.
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