Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Down

Author Topic: Don't enroll your children in the public schools  (Read 24769 times)

bartmy

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2005, 09:24:28 pm »

Quote
money-grubbing

Nothing wrong with money grubbing. Hey he just gave you a compliment Brian!  :D

In Defense of Money Grubbing

http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner24.html

I agree that money grubbing is a step up from pop culture and bad art. I don't believe that it is at the top of chart. To each his own, live and let live, yadda, yadda, yadda.
 It's just my opinion. Too many Americans work way too many hours in pursuit of the almighty dollar and in doing so miss out on life and family. And they are in major debt. No one wants to pay me for schooling my son, reading, writing, cooking, going fishing, chopping wood, playing a boardgame with my family in the evening or meditating at the lake every morning while stretching. I do get paid for building furniture (or whatever else, I work for myself), which I also love, just not enough to do it more than 35 or so hours a week.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 09:32:53 pm by bartmy »
Logged

Tracy Saboe

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3859
    • Rand for US Senate in Kentucky!
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2005, 09:37:08 pm »

Of course one of the reason's people grub for money, is so they can have more free time at a future date.

I grub for money now, so that in 3 or 4 years I'll be able to grub for time for the rest of my life.

Time and money don't have to be tradeoffs if you invest both wisely.

Tracy
Logged
We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

Jack Conway

Conway Supports Obamacare
Conway Supports Cap and Trade
Conway Supports Abortion
Conway’s Utilities Rate Hike Scandal
Conway is in Bed with Big Pharma
Conway is Backed by Wall Street Bankers

bartmy

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2005, 10:25:17 pm »

That sounds like a great plan for you Tracy. Whatever it takes, right? Everyone is different.

Time and money can most certainly be trade-offs. If you were older and raising a family, it would be crystal clear. I don't think that working hard for three or four years is going to carry you through raising a family though, unless you are making about a million dollars a year, pre tax income. I make $45-$65 per hour, and that's all I need. New Hampshire is cheap, I used to live on Cape Cod.

BTW, libertarian's support a woman's right to choose. Personal freedom and all that.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 10:38:42 pm by bartmy »
Logged

Tracy Saboe

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3859
    • Rand for US Senate in Kentucky!
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2005, 08:10:02 am »

Except that some libertarians believe that the pre-born baby has rights too.

Where did THAT statement come from. We haven't talked about abortion at all in this thread.

Anyway, if all my debts (including my mortgage) were paid off, my wife and I could live fairly comfortably on $500/month or less.

That's what I'm doing. Working one job to pay of debts and the other to use use on expenses and invest and save and pay of debts like normal.

2ndly, I don't make nearly as much as you do. You might make different tradeoffs in regards to time/money if you only made $12/hour.

But you're right. everyone's different.

Tracy
Logged
We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

Jack Conway

Conway Supports Obamacare
Conway Supports Cap and Trade
Conway Supports Abortion
Conway’s Utilities Rate Hike Scandal
Conway is in Bed with Big Pharma
Conway is Backed by Wall Street Bankers

BrianMcCandliss

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1121
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2005, 09:31:11 pm »

I am against forced school education - and I homeschool/unschool my son because of it - I don't just "prattle" on about what *I* believe.

Public schools obviously miss the mark more often than not.

Wrong-- they HIT their ACTUAL  intended mark-- of totalitarian suppression of human freedoms, in the name of state supremacy. Do you REALLY think they're interested in bettering the children's own self-interests first and foremost-- whether they or their parents like it or not? If so, you're dangerously NAIVE.

And even if they DID have the child's best intersts in mind, they would have no right to attempt to further such by force-- but force is the inevitable currency of statism. And statism in turn is the inevitable result of centralization.

Quote
You sound like a money-grubbing sociopath.


As does ANY philosophically, economically and politically-literate person to the thus-illiterate, perhaps-- but your shortcomings are not my responsibility. The fact that I recognize finite commodities, as BEING finite-- and therefore quantifiable-- as well as SUBJECTIVELY valued, as opposed to your foisting your personal values of various things on me and others (as in your prattling on about how "I lack enlightenment" and other meaningless ad homeneim jabberwocky)--  proves me more intelligent and informed than you, in that you take pride in combining ignorance with arrogance.

Quote
So, you deleted your post describing yourself as the "emporor with no clothes", look up some new disjointed and disconnected info, and then refer to art and literature as an "arrogant self-orgy of superiority and self-indulgence"

and expect to be taken seriously!!!! GO BACK TO THE MENTAL MASTURBATION YOU SEEM TO ENJOY SO, SO, SO MUCH

Actually, it was deleted by the board-censors-- so I furnished something more politically-correct and less esoteric. I had a feeling the first one flew right over your naked-emperor-worshipping head anyway-- a feeling which, sadly, proved correct, as noted below:

Quote
I think your reference to yourself being naked actually showed a little class, the ability to admit ignorance is a virtue when you know you are wrong. (and you are, deeply)

And the inabilty to see your own ignorance is no virtue-- as is the Islamic saying that "more treacherous than the serpent, is the donkey which brays in the yard."
 I WASN'T referring to myself-- and for you to asss-ume such, is to make an ass of yourself indeed-- a HORSE's ass.
If you don't know what a "naked emperor" is, then you're not just politically, economically and philosophically illiterate-- you're LITERALLY illiterate!

Quote
you seem better suited toward getting stoned and talking about the possible existence of the universe in your own belly button (if you have one, you android) with some college buddies and a few cases of coors light or budweiser.

Now you show your own prejudice, and the ignorance out of which it ensues. Matter of fact, I've made contributions to the entire field of astrophysics which are still being sifted by the experts-- however I've been working on them since Sagan's day.

Quote
Brian, the ability to string two and three-syllable words together indicates nothing. They must make sense to be effective.

Make sense to whom-- to YOU? Or simply OBJECTIVE sense-- i.e. truth, of which all is God's?

 In either case, you flatter yourself-- by assuming that your failure to find sense in them, constitutes any testamony to their being NON-sense. Something flying OVER your head,  is only non-existent in the context of the two-dimensional thinker.

Quote
The fact that you could possibly glean any connection between what I have written and Lenin's usefull idiot says quite alot about your intellectual capacity and your ability to reason.

Yes-- but in the OPPOSITE of your intended meaning. Your words give you away  clearly-- as does your contempt for capitalism.

Quote
GO ON WITH MONEY AS YOUR MEASURING STICK FOR LIFE AND HAPPINESS . YOU ARE SICK.

So you WOULDN'T pay more of your money-- the money which you (giving you the benefit of the doubt) earned by trading your freedom toward fulfilling OTHERS' pursuit of happiness-- for something which facilitates your pursuit of happiness, than for something which DOESN'T?
You ARE either econimically illiterate-- or think that your values of what constitute "legitimate" happiness (i.e. that which fulfills your definition of "enlightened" values) are the TRUE ones, giving you license to FORCE them on others-- which makes you EVIL.

And a fool and his money are soon parted-- unfortunately in a democracy without liberty, such "paying-dearly departed" fools, tend to simply vote themselves  compensation from the thrifty and wise, as we are currently seeing in New Orleans.

Don't equate simplicity that you don't understand, with error-- rather than CLARITY. You might think that E=MC2 is a statement of ignorance just because "it doesn't make sense to you," but that doesn't make you a better physicist than Einstein. Likewise, your contempt for money, doesn't make you a better philosopher than I am.

Contempt for money, to quote Micheal Corleone, is a trick of the rich to keep others from it: and as such, is likewise thus a trick of the socialist to separate the freeman from his goods-- via enjoining the the aid of USEFUL IDIOTS.
Or as Pogo would say:
"You has met the enemy, and they is YOU."
« Last Edit: September 17, 2005, 09:55:18 pm by BrianMcCandliss »
Logged

bartmy

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2005, 08:46:30 am »

I don't know how to get it through to you...

I don't want to foist any of my ideals upon you. My ideals are my ideals, they are laid out for perusal, laid out as an alternative viewpoint to that which you espouse... I don't want to pass any laws against people wasting their own lives, setting themselves up for midlife crisis, etc...my viewpoint is my opinion, and I'm sure that your opinion works for you...I am simply disagreeing with you regarding the almighty dollar as the only meaningful measuring stick to be applied to education,life,  happiness, etc.


That's why I said perhaps you are lacking exposure to great literature, etc...
Perhaps you are not, perhaps you don't care,...I don't know, nor did I suggest it is THE ONLY way...what I said was, your way is not the only way, and that I think to say your way is THE ONLY TRUE way is fallacious, and somewhat shallow.

 I can see now how it could be a part of that, but I still disagree when you suggest to people that it is the ONLY measure. I see life as being too subjective; too individual to be gauged by money alone. Perhaps if I was calculating acceptable casualties for a war, or worked for an insurance company...but that, to me, is statistical analysys, and many times far removed from the emotions and feelings that go into contributing to people's happiness and satisfaction during their lifetimes. Of course, if we don't earn ENOUGH money to live in the manner that we would like to, attaining happiness can be difficult. Poverty is not a hotbed of happiness, that much is obvious, but there are, IMO, WAY too many people who equate having a lot of consumer goods with being happy, even going so far as to rent storage space to store their EXTRA crap, only to eventually realize that things, commodities are NOT the answer to happiness. Sometimes at forty, sometimes on their deathbed.

When I said public schools miss the mark, I meant that they do not best serve children and teenagers. They are, in my opinion, about employing teachers and bureaucrats, and they remind me of a minor league farm system for corporations. Not too different than the former Soviet Union pulling physically talented youngsters out of first and second grade to train them for the Olympics 8 hours per day...

I love capitalism. I have my own business that I started many years ago with a small credit card from Sears. I have had as many as six well-compensated employees...I could very easily have paid them less, and kept more for myself, but I believe in paying people a livable wage...enough to raise a family and buy a house...Capitalism allows me to set up my life in the way that I want to, contribute what I want to, and take the risks that I want to. It's one of the things that allows me the balance in my life between work and family and play.

Everyone is different, Brian, and I'm sure you are well-suited to your field, as I am to mine. I respect you for thinking through your opinions and for the analyzing of yourself and available materials regarding your beliefs. You present some interesting ideas, and I have learned a couple things from cross-referencing some of your statements/opiniions.

Of course I earn my money. Of course I spend it (after food, shelter, clothing, savings) in pursuit of happiness. I do not stand in the way of anyone else earning their money...so I don't know what you are talking about. This would be an example of what I consider your faulty logic/non-sequiter type posting.

You ARE either econimically illiterate-- or think that your values of what constitute "legitimate" happiness (i.e. that which fulfills your definition of "enlightened" values) are the TRUE ones, giving you license to FORCE them on others-- which makes you EVIL.


Where, in any post, did you ever get ANY impression of me wanting to FORCE anything on anybody?????

Perhaps I am economically illiterate - although I doubt it, considering I've achieved what I set out to achieve in business, on my own- I just don't think that money is so great a tool to measure a person's life with and that there are alot of people out there who lived that way for awhile and found it cold and hollow, found out that their wife was a lonely pill-popper and that they didn't know their own children. I find that sad. Granted, a select few of the "money grubbers" get extremely rich and can then try to turn things around in their lives. Most don't ever have that luxury, most don't get rich because they spend everything they make in an attempt to "buy" happiness. These are the same folks contributing to the boom of the affore-mentioned self-storage industry.

I am first and foremost a self-reliant and rugged individual, i.e, I grow as much of my own produce as possible, am working at homemade solar heat for my house to get more "off" the grid, I homeschool my son on everything from welding to physics to investing and could survive a hike to the North Pole or make it to the summit of Mt. Everest if I chose to. I have multiple skills that allow me to do things myself - weld, build everything from computers to houses, plumb, electrify, cook, farm, repair machinery and engines or whatever - and a bunch of other simple albeit usefull skills. In that sense, I am "business before pleasure", although I take some measure of simple pleasure in doing those things as well. I like being self-sufficient.
 
If I can understand Dostoevsky, the various surprises of quantum mechanics, and get all excited about string theory but still not make sense of parts of your posts, well, perhaps I AM missing the point, but then again, perhaps you are ineffective at communicating your ideas using the written word. I haven't found much in this world that I haven't been able to understand when I've tried. I was cursed with an EXTREMELY HUGE brain. That's not to say yours isn't bigger, so maybe you need to simplify your posts a bit for me. Economic theory is a weak point for me, although I have looked up a few things since your postings to try to better understand where you are coming from.

Anyway, on a different note -
I can grasp your idea that someone producing the "most-needed" or "most wanted"product, and therefore charging alot for said product, is contributing the most. It seems to me that, in theory, it should be  COULD PoTENTIALLY be contributing the most. Contributing what though? If Iran is paying me alot for a nuclear bomb, and I provide it because it offers me the highest return on my time, what have I contributed? I realize this is an extreme example, but there are so many others that I would also consider very, very questionable as to how much they actually contribute, except to someone's bank account.
Perhaps I need to know your definitions of "contribute". I guess I am stuck in a bit of a left wing definition and charity keeps coming to mind when I think of contribute.

I don't have any contempt whatsoever for money, or for people who have alot of it. I have had contempt (well, contempt is a bit too strong of a word) for people who neglect their families needs by working 90 hours a week so that they can drive BMW's and keep up with the latest fashions and trends as a way of defining themselves - not realizing that it is, for the most part, all external bullshit that's been carefully contrived and polished to a shiny gleam by Madison Avenue executives. People who have nicer woodworking tools than I do but don't even know how to use them, they are there for Bob the neighbor to be "impressed".. People who have big houses with plasma T.V's in multiple rooms so everyone can disappear to their own little corner of the universe instead of interacting as a family unit and seeking meaningfull relationships. I guess you could call these people "collector's", because they accumulate alot of belongings, alot of shite. Contempt though...no, I feel annoyed with them, sorry for their families, their kids, sorry for them. I know it's kind of condescending of me to feel that way, but I do. I find it disappointing that humans can be so banal.

 I don't believe in taxing the rich to feed the poor or government enforced social programs of ANY kind. I guess in that sense, I would like to force my ideals on people - in that they need to be responsible for themselves and that those who are physically/mentally unable to care for themselves should be cared for by family, church, community, or voluntary charitable donations. I don't believe anyone has a "right" to anything that they haven't earned for themselves.
Except for healthcare, protection of personal freedoms and border protection from invasion. I have the sense that we would probably agree on much more than we disagree...is it McCandless?
G'Day
BTW, I don't have any problems with sociopaths, they are some of my favorite people. <G>
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 10:23:49 am by bartmy »
Logged

BrianMcCandliss

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1121
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2005, 07:35:59 pm »

I'm not going to wade through all that, but I don't need to in order to get the idea. Sorry if you don't understand "liberty" as respecting others' SOVEREIGNTY regardless of what you may want or "think is right.

 However in this case the fallacy is more of a self-fulfilling sophistry. The US is NOT a free country, it's an EVIL EMPIRE. Until this changes, we're just going to have more people voting for laws on what they THINK others should do. Check out this letter on how to change it.


« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 11:47:01 am by BrianMcCandliss »
Logged

cropperb

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2006, 12:23:36 am »

I might have a solution:

Aristotle's Academy, a private school/home school hybrid.

I will be opening such an establishment, currently planning on Concord, in the fall of '07 or '08.

The biggest difference between my school and private school will be cost (mine will be a lot lower).

My school will NOT have a gymnasium, football feild, swimming pool, track, basketball court, tennis courts, etc and so on.

My school WILL have a comprehensive education in History, Science, Math and Literature.

For more information, see my other posts where I explain more indepth, or email me

brandonjesse (at) hotmail (dot) com

You can also purchase "The Philosophy of Education" by Leonard Peikoff at

www.aynrandbookstore.com

which is an excellant course in what education is and what it is for.
Logged

Dreepa

  • First 1000
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Don't enroll your children in the public schools
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2006, 09:40:42 am »

During yesterday's MVP meeting I think one point that was brought up that was excellent.

What if we first try and get the busing of kids stopped?  Or make only the parents pay to bus their kids.  They should reduce the taxes in town by quite a bit.
This might be the first avenue to explore.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Up