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Author Topic: Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)  (Read 8263 times)

antayla

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2003, 05:54:45 am »

*shrugs* well, someone will figure out a way :P
Of course, someone does they will  figure out a way to tax it :P
Eh, sometimes the best way to not pay taxes is to simply not make money.  Plenty of ways to do that and have plenty I daresay. You just gotta make it easy... and it takes *gasp* some kinda trust I would think...
*resovles to ponder on it more*
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bIlluminati

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2003, 11:24:52 am »

Some real-life examples:

Amish putting up a barn. They don't get paid cash for the labor, thus no tax.

Church buying food, candles, etc. Donations to the church are deductible (if church incorporated to do this) and  money spent by the church on food not taxable to recipient.

Example: children work in family restaurant, eat food. While the IRS may wish to tax the food, reality is that it shows up as food expense but no income. In some states, not NH, save on sales tax this way also.

There are other, more dramatic examples, but you see the pattern of allowed tax avoidance (not evasion). Doing things for family, friends and church results in significant aviodance of tax on labor and sometimes goods.
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SteveA

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2003, 03:03:59 pm »

Thank you, Adam, for the info.  I guess this is part of the whole argument about what is "income" that the IRS is taxing.

Ideally, as Tracy stated, it's better to fix the system than try to work with it.  Working with the current system is what has caused a lot of the problems in America now.  It's just paper, until you let it control your life.

Having a good definition of "income" would be good.  I regularly quit my job, just to keep my income lower so I don't have to pay higher taxes, no joke.  It might be greedy and selfish of me, or hurt the economy some but I help the people I know who need it and they are happy to have me around.  The money the govt takes, I don't even get a "thank you" for.

Would living on your own somewhere, be considered self employed and taxable?  ;)  The ways things are going, it probably will be. :-\
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rodschmidt

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2003, 02:53:02 am »

Quote
Unfortunately, it's certainly not as simple as FRNs versus non-dollar compensation.

Quote
‘Income may be defined as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined,’ --Eisner v. Macomber, 252 U.S. 189 (1920)

So how much additional tax do I owe for services I received from my wife?

Do I pay additional taxes for free lunches at work?  I don't see how.

I worked for a company that sent us all on a "free trip" to the grand unveiling of its new product (which wasn't ready to be unveiled).  When the free trip was announced, everybody cheered.  Later a memo came down from the payroll department telling us how much we would pay in tax for this free trip.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2003, 02:00:17 pm »

Here is a proposal for getting NH residents out of federal income taxes: institute a state income tax that equals 100% of their federal tax liability. Since federal law allows you to deduct state income taxes from your federal income taxes, doing so would eliminate all federal taxation of NH residents. Residents would then have these taxes paid to the state rebated against all past, current, and future property taxes, gas taxes, and other taxes within the state.
It would also be applicable toward any educational costs of the payee or their dependents at any private school in the state at any level of education.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2003, 02:03:05 pm by Mike Lorrey »
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Adam Selene

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2003, 04:25:33 pm »

Here is a proposal for getting NH residents out of federal income taxes: institute a state income tax that equals 100% of their federal tax liability. Since federal law allows you to deduct state income taxes from your federal income taxes, doing so would eliminate all federal taxation of NH residents.

Nice try, but it that doesn't work.

You can deduct foreign tax liability (in some cases) from your Taxable Income, *not* your Tax Liability.

So, if your net taxable income is $100,000, and you pay $35,000 in state income taxes (35%), your federal taxable income is reduced to $65,000. You then pay federal taxes on that ($22,750 at 35% tax bracket, leaving you with $42,250).

I'm not aware of any deductions that are subtracted from your tax liability as opposed to your taxable income.
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bostnfound

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2003, 07:25:31 pm »

What would happen if a state raised income taxes, to lets say 70% of ones income?  This would be in conflict with the Federal Income Tax considering people would have all of their money stolen from them.  People would then realize how close they are to Soviet Russia and also it would allow a lawsuit to have standing against the Fed Gov't.  

(I am an anarcho-capitalist so this is simply a hypothetical)
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rodschmidt

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2003, 10:47:17 am »

I'm not aware of any deductions that are subtracted from your tax liability as opposed to your taxable income.

They're called "tax credits".  

I've heard of an "earned income tax credit", I think there's one related to children, and in the Carter era there was one for putting solar cells on your roof.
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rodschmidt

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2003, 10:48:47 am »

I read once about a British income tax of 102%.  People were calling their bankers and begging them not to pay interest.
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vepope

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2003, 01:38:59 pm »

This really is the best idea so far.  It has the virtue of having worked in precedents, and being completely legal and enforceable.  

I especially like the Wyoming model, where they forced the IRS (and all FED agents) to answer to county sheriffs, who in turn would not cooperate/condone/authorize any siezure without the appropriate court order (which the IRS can't get).

State Nulification is the best way to go for ending Federal income taxes.

We could try to get the State to make it illegal for it's residence to pay Federal income taxes.

Or we could try to get local county or city governments to make it illegal to pay federal income taxes.

Several States have passed laws making it illegal for the Fed to enforce the Patriot act, and several have passed laws making it illegal for local, or state law enforcement to cooporate with the Federal Government in enforcing the Patriot Act.

We need to try and maybe get our local and state governments to pass simular laws about the IRS. Then people who are actually following what the law says about the income tax, won't have to put up with abuse from the IRS's missaplication of the law.

See, but it really wouldn't be state nulification. It would be the State forcing the Fed to follow it's own laws.

See also my blog entry for Monday 9/15 at
http://www.geocities.com/tracysaboe/blog.html

Tracy Saboe

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rayschneider

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Re:Lowering income tax on employment (including federal)
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2003, 06:19:19 pm »

In regards to the federal governments theft of everyone money, property and liberties, let me say this. INCOME TAX AT ANY LEVEL be it Federal, State, City or whatever IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Let me repeat UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Before you reply and say I’m crazy please visit this site http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com and read and review what Bill Benson has to say on the topic.  What the FreeState needs, actually what every states needs is a Governor that has the balls to reinstitute the 9th and 10th amendments of the Constitution, take back States Rights and tell the Federal Government to “GO TO HELL!!!” That also includes the Federal Judges that legislate from their benches. This is also against the Constitution.  I wrote an email the other day to Walter Williams in response to his last article. What I suggested to him is that since the nation of Islam had their Million Man March which was segregated to Black men, and there was the Million Mother March that was segregated to mothers, that there should be an all inclusive march on Washington. The Million Tax-Payer March! It should be held on April 14th and at exactly 11:59pm we could all tell the Federal, State, and Local Governments to “Go To Hell and the IRS Too! “

Thank you,
Just a loyal American who believes in our forefathers and the Constitution they gave us. Not these Fascist Bastards that are destroying this Great Nation more and more every day!
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