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Author Topic: Federal Taxes  (Read 6302 times)

LeopardPM

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2003, 03:51:23 am »

Unless of course we allow commericial sponsorship...The 82nd Airborne, brought to you by Subway..... ;D

LOL! I luv it and never thought of it!  I bet the would be WELL funded by the conservative-types, great idea!
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2003, 05:35:26 am »

Talon no.

The States are soveran. The Fed was created by the States, not the other way around. The States are soveran. Article 4 of the Constitution garentees us a Republic. Part of the definition of a Republic is "Federalism" or decentralized government.

State nullification, and Succession are as american as Apple pie. In the early part of our nations history, local governments had successionist movements to break off from their respective states as well to form their own independend city state. (NEw York City, came very close to secceding from New york State.)

Anyway, The Cities and Counties are soveren to the State. The States are soveren to the Fed.

The Fed only has jurisdiction that the States gave them. And the States retained their right to take een that limited jurisdiction away from the Fed and put it back into the states hands if the Fed used it's powers tyranically.

In Nevada County One county Sherrif, stood of with the Feds, and chaced the Feds out of town. It has precident, even in recent history. (The Nevada incident was with-in the last 10 years or so.)

It's my hope, that the people in the Free state will stand up for their rights. That the Counties and cities will stand up to the State and the Fed, when they usurp their authority. It's also my hope that the People will stand up for their rights when ever any jurisdiction of government becomes tyrannical. But it's much easier to stand up to the county, or city, then it is, to stand up to the State, or the Fed. This is why Cities, Counties, and States, must nulify and resist tyranny from larger jurisdictions.

Tracy Saboe
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

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<Patrick>

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2003, 07:02:58 am »

     Is there any legal way to channel the federal income tax payed by New Hampshire citizens back to NH via the State Govenment?

     Then the State Government could just return the money dollar for dollar to the individuals who payed it.

Then we opt out of medicare and social security and the feds don't keep a penny from us.

Just an idea, I don't know if it could actually be done.

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LeopardPM

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2003, 04:09:45 pm »

There has been discussion of this idea (returning income tax dollars) and it will take a major effort of liberty-minded folks established within the state government, in addition to the congressmen and senators.  I do not see this realistically happing anytime soon, but am always hopefull!
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Talon

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2003, 01:52:18 am »

Tracy...

I hope I'm articulate enough to get my point across. I also hope I'm not being too naive or obtuse. I understand that states are technically soverign...and I understand that even seccession(sp?) can be accomplished constitutionally. My question, I guess, is that the Fed gov already exists, along with Fed laws...so how and when can a state decide it doesn't want to follow a Fed law? The fed gov has the power the states gives it, granted. But can states pick and choose what laws they will follow or which laws they will ignore? With no reprucussions? I know, for example, if you don't play ball with federal highway laws/drinking ages they will not fund the state with highway money...a nicety for sure, but not too crucial for a single fiscal year or two. But the real question is, what would the consequences be if NH law was changed to directly or indirectly "loop hole" federal taxes? Could there even be consequences? What could be the practical consequence for this type of action/inaction? It's easy to say "screw it, the whole state isn't paying taxes"...but in practice, what would be the most likely result? I know that's a lot of "what ifs"...

Don't get me wrong, I'm nowhere near trying to argue the point that NH, or any state, should be a good little underlying and follow the Fed Gov in everything it says. I'm just trying to understand what the rules are. If states can choose when and where they want to follow fed laws/law enforcment/etc...then what's the point? How can a state elect congressmen, participate in making laws and policy, therefore validating the Fed goverment (if we like it or not),  and then say...you know what? nevermind.  I don't like the way the vote turned out so I'm taking my ball and going home. And how exactly would other states like that? I think these are issues that would have to be studied closely...

I'm sure what you say is true about a sheriff 10 years ago not cooperating with the FBI or whoever about whatever...but when we talk tax revenue I think it would open a whole new can of worms. To quote a movie, "Messing with my money is like messing with my emotions....".

What I'm saying in a nutshell: In the real world...Can it be that easy?

I know some will say there is no need for the fed, get rid of the entire Fed gov! But in my view it is a necessary function (National defense, Foreign policy, mediation between states, Affirmative Action....who said that?  :o )
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LeopardPM

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2003, 02:37:33 am »

you were k=joking about Affirmative Action, right?
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Talon

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2003, 02:41:42 am »

No...why?




 :P

YES I WAS KIDDING!!!!! I have to remember, laying out the sarcasim on a post can sometimes not come out right.....lol.
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LeopardPM

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2003, 03:19:14 am »

exactly!
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Danny

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2003, 06:00:05 pm »

The obvious solution here,is to hook up with the tax-freedom movement (eg Bob Schultz,We The People),and convince as many people in The Free State as possible,simply not to file.Good old passive noncompliance. )

The We The People Foundation and We The People Congress are the "center of the world" regarding the subject of the income tax and have representation in almost every state. Something very important will be happening soon, as a result of their efforts.

They currently have active programs for relief and are fighting on multiple fronts, with a membership in the 100,000's.

For those that have questions on this subject, see links below. There is also a conference coming up in January, in Washington DC, where everyone who's anyone regarding this subject, will be attending. They will also be holding workshops on how to stop withholding from your paycheck.

Full details can be found on website below. I'll also include the sites of some other prominent leaders in the movement.

www.GiveMeLiberty.org- We The People Foundation
www.TheftByDeception.com- Larken Rose, 861 argument
www.TaxableIncome.net- Larken Rose, 861 argument
www.FreedomAboveFortune.com- Joseph Banister, former IRS special agent/ wistleblower

I believe an invitation is or has already gone out to the New Hampshire Representative Dave Buhlman from District 66/Hudson, to attend the conference. He has recently submitted legislation to unhook NH from the income tax.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2003, 06:11:52 pm by Danny »
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MrVoluntarist

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2003, 09:33:36 pm »

Actually, to answer the topic question, I posted an idea a while back, which eventually led to the whole geoist insurgence.  But here's an idea about something the FSP can do about federal taxes:

NH could negotiate with the feds to pay it a predetermined sum of state tax money every year in lieu of its citizens paying income tax.  NH could convince the feds that they would get more money that way.  Then, NH could collect the money in a less intrusive way, such as a sales tax, property tax, or LVT.  That alone would make you freer because althought your burden would be (for the average person) the same, the feds wouldn't be constantly snooping through your books.

But then NH could switch to a less burdensome, cheaper to collect tax, and in that way reduce your burden.  As NH experiences phenomenal growth, that tax, in fixed amounts, would mean a lower and lower fraction of your money.

Add to that another idea: what if the ppl of NH gradtually shift to an economy where they trade in hard, metal-backed currency.  If the replacement payments to the feds are stipulated in dollars, it will become easier to pay every year because the metals will gain against the dollar.

So I think it's possible for one state to be able to reduce the federal burden.
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RhythmStar

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2003, 12:17:44 pm »

I'm not sure I follow... ???

How can a local sheriff kick a federal agent out of his town? Don't federal agents have jurisdiction over the entire country (when federal crimes are commited)? Isn't that one of the ideas behind federal agents? So local good 'ole boys can't get away with anything the local sheriff decides is ok?

On the other hand, I can easily see passing state laws, or repealing them, so that in no way can any NH state official aide the Federal goverment in collecting/investigating these taxes.

So, for those that haven't paid their federal taxes in awhile, a question. Do you not believe that the federal tax system is necessary at all? Or is it better in your opinion to protest all the pork by not paying? I'm of the opinion that probably 70% of the federal budget is not necessary but I very strongly believe that such things as the Military must be funded at adequate levels which must be paid through taxes. Unless of course we allow commericial sponsorship...The 82nd Airborne, brought to you by Subway..... ;D

Well, if there were commercial sponsorship of military units, maybe then an enlisted man's family could live on his wages without resorting to food stamps.

RS
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2003, 12:32:32 am »

To Talon.

The Docteran of State Nulification, was established in the Virginia and Kentucy resolutions in responce to the Alien and Sedition acts. States have the right to refuse to enforce and comply and prevent federal enforcement of unconstitutional laws -- or any Federal law that hurts said state.

South Carolina refused to comply with Jackson's higher tarrifs continually.

Tracy Saboe
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

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Protoman

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2003, 01:56:58 am »

Quote
Nulifying the Federal income Tax
Making it illegal for State, and local police and governments to cooporate with the Feds in enforcing the Federal income Tax.

Making it illegal for the IRS, and the Justice Department to investigate people residing in New Hampshire.

Forcing any federal agent to both clear it with the State police and County and City police before they are allowed to investigate any federal crime.


Sounds like a sure way to start another war of northern aggression.

Preceeded by months, or even years, or media scaremongering and demonization of these radical anarchists who have high-jacked the legislature and are now "illegally" trying to avoid federal requirements while the rest of us must foot the bill.

I think you underestimate just how likely it is for the feds to deploy the military in enforcing their edicts over the state.

Two ways it could go down:
1. We have the popular support of the state and control over it's national guard, thus sparking off another clash between the state and feds that will have interesting rammifications to say the least.

2. We got into office on a moderate agenda and the majority of the populace is uneasy aobut the whole thing, most probably buying into what the national media is telling them about our agenda.
Not having anything but small bands of militia at our disposal the feds crack down on the state anti-insurgant style (ie. Iraq) and use those new "non-lethal" military devices to disperse large crowds (ie. Blinding lasers, and those tank mounted devices that burn the skin surface with microwaves).
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:Federal Taxes
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2003, 02:43:04 am »

Perhaps.

BTW I think it's actually called State Interposition or something.

Tracy
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We agree that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

Jack Conway

Conway Supports Obamacare
Conway Supports Cap and Trade
Conway Supports Abortion
Conway’s Utilities Rate Hike Scandal
Conway is in Bed with Big Pharma
Conway is Backed by Wall Street Bankers
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