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Author Topic: Is 20,000 enough?  (Read 22805 times)

z0rr0

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Is 20,000 enough?
« on: September 02, 2002, 09:41:54 pm »

Hello,

   I have been following FSP off and on for some time.  I find the concept interesting.  I noticed that Alaskan Independence Party has almost as many members as the FSP target number, and is located in one FSP's top six destination states, but they still have trouble getting  a good solid foothold in being able to sway the state.  The party has been in existence for almost 30 years.  I guess that brings me to my topic "Is 20,000 enough?"  If the entire AIP were to sign up for the FSP, you would have your target number and nobody would have to move, but the likelihood of being able to proceed further with the end goal would still not be readily available.  I am not trying to slam the project.  On the contrary, I think it is a very interesting idea.  I am just curious if the target number will be enough.  
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Elizabeth

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2002, 09:44:06 pm »

Read the essay:

What Can 20,000 Liberty Activists Accomplish?
http://www.freestateproject.com/strategies.htm

It answers all your questions.
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foadi

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2002, 09:45:40 pm »

It wont be enough in New Hampshire, which is why I am not going if New Hampshire is chosen.  I will move to an island with 500 exotic woman instead...
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The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

JasonPSorens

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2002, 09:50:55 pm »

The Alaska Independence Party has 20,000 registered voters, but only about 1,600 party members (and I don't even know if they are all paid up).  We're assuming that the FSP activists will be paid-up party members, or the equivalent in terms of volunteer time.  So multiply the AIP's effect by about 12 and you'll get our expected effect.  Incidentally, the AIP did elect a governor at one point.  They never really pressed their electoral victories, though; most of their voters appear to be alienated, disaffected, and demobilised.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

antayla

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2002, 03:20:12 pm »

Besides, between moving day, and absolute moving day (a period of five years) undoubtedly we will pick a few thousand more.

It's gonna get worse, and as it does, we will see a nice steady stream of pissed off Americans (and others!) trickling in.  Be patient, keep the movement going, and all will be well.  I don't believe this will be any kind of failure, if it brings us together (even if we don't achieve our immediate goals, we will have 20,000 hardcore friends to help us out :)
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foadi

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2002, 05:08:12 pm »


IMHO the 1000 we have signed up now was to move to the "Freestate", would have to be an improvement over the other choices we have now!   :P

You wouldn't want to live in a TROPICAL ISLAND PARADISE with 500 other exotic women?!
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The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

antayla

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2002, 11:17:57 am »

So um.... is there a reason you don't post a pic foadi?

If ya wanna get chicks, ya gotta be honest with them >:)
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cathleeninsc

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2002, 03:42:03 pm »


IMHO the 1000 we have signed up now was to move to the "Freestate", would have to be an improvement over the other choices we have now!   :P


I live in a county in which exactly 7 people don't think I am weird. I know accomplishing change will be difficult but the prospect of living in a community where hundreds don't think I am weird is a little intoxicating.

Cathleen in SC
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Mega Joule

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2002, 01:36:21 am »

Quote
Quote from: cathleeninsc

I live in a county in which exactly 7 people don't think I am weird. I know accomplishing change will be difficult but the prospect of living in a community where hundreds don't think I am weird is a little intoxicating.

Cathleen in SC


Can you imagine living in a state with greater than 20,000 liberty-loving, free-thinking, opinionated, vocal, philosophy chanting, position ranting, political activists?
Woooooo weeeeee!  What a ride.   ;D

I can hardly wait.   :D :D :D

Meg

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One More Quill

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2002, 08:59:01 am »

Pluss we already have people who are watching the FSP, but wont sign up.  They just plan on moving to the same state if this thing takes off.  I imagine that if we ever get 20K members we'll find a few thousand more people moving with us, assuming we can find a state everyone likes.

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To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States, Resist much, obey little,
Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
Once Fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth, ever afterward resumes its liberty.

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Stumpy

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2002, 09:14:46 am »

There will also be single-issue folks who will come to the Free State because of the liberalization of their issue. Some examples include gun rights advocates, home schoolers, etc.

These people/groups may not join the FSP, but they will fight with us when their issue is being debated.
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Libertarianitis - A disease where one is incapable of doing anything other than debate. The sufferer is rendered totally incapable of being constructive and constantly marginalizes him or herself by displays of extreme negativity, bitterness and intransigence.

Stumpy

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2002, 09:50:01 am »

Assume we are able to reverse some parts of the welfare system. Many of the freeloaders (welfare recipients, etc.) there will pack up and move to greener pastures.

These freeloaders tend to vote for statist.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2002, 09:53:55 am by stumpy »
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Libertarianitis - A disease where one is incapable of doing anything other than debate. The sufferer is rendered totally incapable of being constructive and constantly marginalizes him or herself by displays of extreme negativity, bitterness and intransigence.

heyerstandards

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2002, 02:06:26 pm »

It's a long row to hoe, but supposing we get to 20,000, get settled,  and start to win elections. I think we could easily reach 50,000 once people perceive the darn thing is actually working.

We must be mindful of the electoral tricks that will be played. What kind of scare campaigns to you think the NEA / NAACP / AFSCME can conjure up? If we open up our voting process too much (same day registration, etc.) we may well have busloads of newfound registrants.

The point is, people are sheep. Once they see this works, not only will people flock to us, but new movements will spring up around the country.
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Stumpy

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2002, 06:23:33 pm »


It's a long row to hoe, but supposing we get to 20,000, get settled,  and start to win elections. I think we could easily reach 50,000 once people perceive the darn thing is actually working.


Yep. Many people love freedom but see no incentive to become involved in politics. Once this thing becomes tangible, the fruits of freedom will entice many.


We must be mindful of the electoral tricks that will be played. What kind of scare campaigns to you think the NEA / NAACP / AFSCME can conjure up?

Statists always lie, obfuscate and use fear as a weapon on those most vulnerable.
They must because truth, clarity and logic are not their friends.
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Libertarianitis - A disease where one is incapable of doing anything other than debate. The sufferer is rendered totally incapable of being constructive and constantly marginalizes him or herself by displays of extreme negativity, bitterness and intransigence.

JasonPSorens

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Re:Is 20,000 enough?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2002, 02:21:11 pm »

I do not understand how a "strategic coverage" would not be possible in any of the states we're considering now.  They're all below the population limit, and they're all, overall, ideologically somewhat favorable.  So getting a strategic coverage is simply a matter of placement.  It doesn't matter how the population is distributed geographically - we can tailor our plans to that distribution once we choose the state.  In other words, I don't understand how this is relevant to state selection given that all the states could be covered in the appropriate ways.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism
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