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Author Topic: Lone Wolves  (Read 9553 times)

glen

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Lone Wolves
« on: August 29, 2002, 11:54:19 pm »

Once a state (any state) has been chosen as the free state, it will become a magnet for every kind of lone wolf and social outcast imaginable. It has been my experience that if these people have enough territory and legal jurisdictions to move around in, they will eventually settle down and become valued (or at least tolerated) members of a community.

For this reason (among others) I am in favor of choosing Idaho as the free state. Idaho borders on six US states and one Canadian province with another province, Alberta, about 90 miles to the northeast.

In addition. all counties bordering on Idaho have very small populations except the ‘I-90 book end’ counties of Spokane County, Washington and Missoula County, Montana.
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glen

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2002, 08:27:26 pm »

Hi Solitar. Thank you for your kind words about my first post.

Your point that ‘(in the far northeastern states) There is a lot of territory there to get lost in, and little towns back in the woods where a guy can be a logger or barkeep. It also has coastal areas where a lone wolf can take a boat out for a while and fight the sea rather than people’ is well taken.

1) However, I disagree that the people of the northeastern US are more civilized than those of the northern rocky mountain states. My personal view is that the northeast population has been better educated over a longer period of time but that distinction is rapidly fading.

2) As to the settling down process, while some lone wolves and social outcasts are in need of examples of civilized community behavior to conform to, my understanding is that most of these guys and gals simply reach the point where total freedom becomes too much effort to maintain so they opt for the most freedom they can get for the least cost (however measured). When they settle down (or more appropriately, slow down) they often look for kindred souls to live among.

I view this as a self correcting process where lone wolves who have settled down are now in a position to assist others who want to settle down. In time, they create their own communities. If it can be shown that this assumption works out in practice, this means that ‘the thousands of fringe loners that Idaho and Montana have attracted’ become an asset rather than a liability.

3) Finally, no matter what state 20,000 FSP libertarians move to, the FSPers  will be viewed as a bunch of extremists by the locals. My guess is that the more sedentary and traditional the chosen state is, the more the locals will be threatened by the libertarian migration.

Because Idaho has seen at least four waves of immigrants in the last 30 years or so (Mormons, hippies, right-wing conspiracy theorists and now expatriate dot-commers from the west coast) Idaho looks to be the state which would feel least threatened by the libertarian migration.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2002, 12:01:42 pm by glen »
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glen

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2002, 10:14:12 pm »

I like your idea of trying to identify the sheep or degree of sheepness. I have heard them called sheepeople too. How do you think they can be identified?

Television viewing habits come to mind but I cannot figure out how to interpret the data from the TV ratings services.

I think that sheepeople will also be hard core consumers. I define ‘hard core consumer’ as: suspending your judgment in the face of modern advertising techniques with the result that you become programmed to buy planned obsolescent merchandise on high interest credit terms.

Maybe one way to identify ‘probable not-sheepeople’ is to find out what parts of a state have poor television reception or no television at all.
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Stumpy

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2002, 08:02:49 am »

The states with the greatest percentage of churchgoers might be the also the states with the greatest percentage of sheeple.

Hmm? Let’s look at Tennessee. It has a very high percentage of churchgoers. Solidly in the Bible belt. Tennessee is the home of the: Southern Baptist, Natl. Baptist, Church of God, Church of God In Christ to name a few. One might even say, Tennessee is the buckle of the Bible belt.

Now, reflect on the way the people of Tennessee have thwarted the efforts of those wanting to impose a state income tax on them.

Would you call them sheeple?
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2002, 10:01:02 am »

Good point, Stumpy.  In fact, if anything, the percentage of churchgoers is negatively correlated with the percentage of sheeple.  California, Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York are probably the most secular states in the country, and they're all pretty socialistic.
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mactruk

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2002, 04:34:02 pm »

 Hello from Montana.  I think worry about what the press or feds think about the Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming crowd is something to get use to.  When the move to opt out of the US begins you will instantly go to the top of the list of anarchist/separatist/militia.  Most people in my town are from somewhere else trying to get away from big city groups that according to the press and the feds are crime ridden, polluted, and full of socialists.    
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wilaygarn

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2002, 10:32:52 pm »

In Considering the relationship of churchgoers to sheeple, I remembered those "christians with guns" whose battle cry was "No king but Jesus!", and Payne's quoting of I Samuel chapter 8, when describing how it was not God's intention for his people to be ruled by kings, in his booklet "Common Sense". I'd say the same goes for tyrannical governments.

There are still a few people like that.
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glen

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2002, 10:31:36 pm »

I think that a good definition of sheeple is: people who complain about the conditions in their cage and then expect someone else to do something about it.
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glen

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2002, 09:26:27 am »

Please have a look at my photographic argument in favor of Idaho at:

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=502

(reply #4)
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varrin

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2002, 01:26:29 pm »

Moi pretty. ;-)

V-

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ZionCurtain

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2002, 11:23:39 pm »

Glen, great picture of clear cutting in Idaho.  ???

Seriously though it makes me miss back home a little.
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glen

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2002, 12:27:56 am »

I used to be bothered by clear cutting because it looked bad and I had come to think that clear cutting was a desecration of the pristine natural wilderness. It still doesn’t look all that great but I am now able to accept the cycle of responsible clear cutting and replanting as a process necessary to maintain ecosystem health and, of course, to benefit people through the use of this valuable natural resource to generate jobs.

I changed my attitude about our ‘pristine wilderness’ after reading the article at this link: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/03/mann.htm

In a nutshell, the article says the assumption that the pre-Columbian America’s were a pristine wilderness where small tribes of natives lived in harmony with the land is challenged by a school of thought which suggests that the America’s were as well populated as Europe was at that time and that the various ecosystems were managed on a grand scale primarily for the benefit of the people, not the flora or fauna.  

If true, this invalidates many of the basic assumptions built into the environmental movement and the different government wilderness protection and environmental regulation agencies.

If the free staters can turn this theory into hard science and can then transfer that hard science into the political debate, the free staters will be in the position of promoting timber jobs and responsible ecosystem stewardship. This issue, all by itself, would be enough to enable free state political candidates to seriously compete for state level positions.

Comments?
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wilaygarn

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2002, 03:01:47 pm »

I read where God put Adam in the garden and told him to dress it, which I take to mean to manage it.

I think too much of the "sustainable development" movement is a thinly disguised form of nature worship which sees humanity as evil and is used as a tool to evict people off the land. It is also an easy way for NGO's like the Nature Conservancy to become land barons in their own right.

From what I have seen and read on the subject, I think the healthiest forests, etc are the ones that are managed and used, not just sealed off. Trees do grow back, wildlife reproduces, etc. Nature is in a constant state of change.

I think  if individuals are free to own land and to manage it as they think best it is the most we can hope for. There will be cases of misuse, but the alternative leads to the collective example of mismanagment on a grand scale.
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redbeard

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2002, 05:28:00 pm »

Indeed. I work in forestry in Northern California and I can tell you from first hand experience that the healthiest (and best looking) forests are those that are properly managed rather than those that are left untouched. Many areas are saved from such things as needle blight and bug infestations by human interventions such as thinning and sanitation logging. It sounds funny but if it weren't for logging there would be far fewer trees on the continent.
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mactruk

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Re:Lone Wolves
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2003, 02:12:17 pm »

  The problem is not experience or assets - our political process and our elected leaders are crooks.  The problem is people vote without knowing anything.  The idea of tax is nothing more than stealling,  Isnt it strange that a person of principle will not get elected?  The voter wants to hear how much do I get?  If you dont lie you dont get elected no matter how much money you have.  60% of the voter population lives on some sort of welfare - how would you vote if you got a check every month?  
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