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Author Topic: Federal Land Ownership Maps!  (Read 54175 times)

LeRuineur6

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Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« on: August 28, 2003, 01:35:40 pm »

« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 01:38:30 pm by LeRuineur6 »
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Summerlin

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2003, 02:19:07 pm »

In relation to the map key, do you know what 'other' means specifically?

Maine really owns all that land?   :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 02:20:00 pm by Summerlin »
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LeRuineur6

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 03:15:55 pm »

In relation to the map key, do you know what 'other' means specifically?

I have no idea.  Check it out here:
http://nationalatlas.gov/natlas/NatlasStart.asp
Click on Boundaries, check Federal Lands and Indian Reservations, and Redraw Map.  Then you can zoom in on any state and see the specifics.  It says the data is from the USGS so you could probably learn more about it from there if you wanted to:
http://nationalmap.usgs.gov/nmjump.html

Maine really owns all that land?   :)

Yes, Maine owns almost all of it.  :)
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2003, 05:14:14 pm »

It's pretty telling, looking at the maps of western land ownership. Wyoming proponents have been pretending that the feds only own Yellowstone Park. Fact is they own over 2/3 of the state, with most significant private tracts being in the arid easern third of the state. It's pretty evident that Wyoming really is worthless as a Free State if we can't get all that land away from the feds.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2003, 06:15:35 pm »



Wyoming proponents have been pretending that the feds only own Yellowstone Park. Fact is they own over 2/3 of the state, with most significant private tracts being in the arid easern third of the state. It's pretty evident that Wyoming really is worthless as a Free State if we can't get all that land away from the feds.


Not at all.  You have to stop looking at the 2/3 of the glass that is empty.  Look at the part that the Feds don't own.  That's all that matters.  Ignore the part they own.  Let them have it.  Don't think of it as yours or ours.  It's theirs, so what, the 1/3 is still a lot bigger than New Hampshire.
If the 2/3 that the feds own did not exist at all, would that make you dislike Wyoming?  Just pretend it doesn't exist.  How does its existence change anything?  It only makes for unrealistic expectations.

Is your Camry less functional if your neighbor owns a Lexus?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2003, 06:17:00 pm by Zack Bass »
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2003, 07:54:24 pm »

My neighbor has a Schwinn bike he owns, the Lexus is a fleet vehicle owned by the feds that they let him drive on business, has lots of horsepower but gets shitty milage, and costs a lot more than competetive vehicles. I have a KITT 2000 camaro tricked out with wireless network, super-woofed-up stereo, mobile office, and lots of other high tech goodies. It runs on a nuclear power plant, and generates five times more economic power than my neighbors Lexus.

Zack, most of Wyoming in private hands is desert, or near desert, or currently burning, or burned out last year. The rest is agricultural land in the desert that requires irrigation with state owned water to maintain. While there certainly must be exceptions to this, I cannot see for any reason why Wyoming would be such a good choice when not a single Green in the US would ever let the Congress get away with letting Wyoming de-nationalize Yellowstone Park.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2003, 04:35:13 pm by Mike Lorrey »
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Zack Bass

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2003, 12:56:34 pm »



  ... most of Wyoming in private hands is desert, or near desert, or currently burning, or burned out last year. The rest is agricultural land in the desert that requires irrigation with state owned water to maintain. While there certainly must be exceptions to this, I cannot see for any reason why Wyoming would be such a good choice when not a single Green in the US would ever let the Congress get away with letting Wyoming de-nationalize Yellowstone Park.


Forget about land that isn't ours!  All we need is a base of operations in the U.S. that we control with the Rights of a State.  It'll be like Singapore, with US-Most-Favored-Nation Trading Status!

How great do you think the agricultural land in Singapore is?

Did you see the South Korean idiot who killed himself yesterday at the WTO meeting because Korea wasn't propping up local farmers enough?  They've already got 100% to 200% import duties on agricultural products, yet the way they like to do their traditional farming isn't competitive with modern farming methods, even counting shipping it there and paying the import duties.  South Koreans pay FOUR TIMES as much for their rice as we do, and they STILL can't grow it any cheaper, they're importing it!!!!!

What does that have to do with this subject?  Like most industrialized nations, South Korea does not depend on its farmland to prosper.  Their industrial base is tremendous, and that does not depend in any way on whether their land is desert or not.  We will do the same.  Screw farming, we now have Technology.  All that matters is the People and the Location - which means, anywhere in the U.S. can be a powerhouse if we can keep the Looters out of our way.

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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2003, 02:48:33 pm »

Every acre, every quare mile that the feds own is an excuse for federal interference in 10th Amendment rights of the Free State. The more those acres are beloved and worshipped by the Greens, the less probable that the federal government will allow the Free State to rule itself and move our agenda forward.

Anyone who is capable of rational thought KNOWS that this is truth.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2003, 03:26:15 pm »



Every acre, every quare mile that the feds own is an excuse for federal interference in 10th Amendment rights of the Free State. The more those acres are beloved and worshipped by the Greens, the less probable that the federal government will allow the Free State to rule itself and move our agenda forward.


Simple.  Redraw our borders to exclude the Federal land.  Let them make it a Territory, or a Possession, or a Federal District like Washington.  Problem solved.

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mactruk

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2003, 09:42:43 pm »

  After the feds burn it down then as a free state throw them out - it is not legal for the feds to own land except for very specific reasons anyway.  The fed judges then need to be put in jail as an example of what will happen in a free state if you rule against the constitution.
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freedomroad

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2003, 11:52:04 pm »

It's pretty telling, looking at the maps of western land ownership. Wyoming proponents have been pretending that the feds only own Yellowstone Park. Fact is they own over 2/3 of the state, with most significant private tracts being in the arid easern third of the state.

Mike,

I am sorry to say this, but that is not a fact.  I do not know where you got that number but you should check your sources.  maybe you should find a better source.  

I found this old FSP report,
http://www.freestateproject.org/homeownership.htm

It says, "49.7" of Wyoming is federal land.  On different internet pages I've seen numbers from 49.5% to 50.6%.  Either way, it is not 66.6%.

Did you mean AK?  67.7% of AK is owned by the feds.

Also, I've been to Wyoming (spent a week driving all over the Eastern 1/2 of the state) and there is lots and lots of great land that is owned by private people.  Certainly, there is more of this great land in WY than all of the land in NH combined.
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johnadams

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2003, 08:04:56 am »

The maps are probably OK. I think Mike was likely overestimating. Like you say, Jamie, 49.7% of Wyoming land is owned by the feds. The map also includes Indian lands (which are administered, managed and held in trust by the US Bureau of Indian Affairs), which brings the total shaded area that you see on the maps up to 52.8%. Interestingly, if you add in the land owned by the state of WY, the total socialized land rises to 59%, which is not that far from Mike's 2/3 guess.

State by State Government Land Ownership
http://www.nwi.org/Maps/LandChart.html
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 08:21:12 am by johnadams »
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2003, 11:39:33 am »

I should note that the stats that you cite are dated to 1995, and are based on data dating back to 1991-1993, which is PRIOR to a large amount of land confiscation by the Clinton administration. Please find updated fed land ownership stats. This reference also does not count federally owned waterways (lakes, rivers, wetlands).

According to Wyoming's state government almanac, total public land ownership in Wyoming is 56,000 square miles out of a total of 97,914 square miles. This is 57.2%

http://eadiv.state.wy.us/almanac/gov&resour.pdf

The fact is that the average private ownership across the US is 60%. The feds own 29% of the US, one third of which is in Alaska. That the government owns nearly 60%, (and nearly 50% federally owned) of Wyoming, is a significant difference from the national average. Compared to states like Maine and NH, which are on the far opposite side of these statistics, Wyoming is essentially a state held hostage to federal control, especially since the feds own all the best land in WY.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 12:46:05 pm by Mike Lorrey »
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johnadams

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2003, 11:21:27 pm »

....According to Wyoming's state government almanac, total public land ownership in Wyoming is 56,000 square miles out of a total of 97,914 square miles. This is 57.2%

http://eadiv.state.wy.us/almanac/gov&resour.pdf
....
WY Gov't Land Ownership                      WY EQUALITY STATE ALMANAC 2000
www.nwi.org/Maps/LandChart.html       Government and Resources
Figures from 1990 - 1995                      eadiv.state.wy.us/almanac/gov&resour.pdf
                                 (000's)                     (000's)
Bureau of Land Mgt   18,398.4                  18,393.1
Forest Service            9,703.6                    9,259.2
National Park Serv     2,393.2                     2,391.5
Other                          406.8                           56.3
Total Federal           30,902.0                     30,100.1
Tribal Lands             1,909.4                              ?
State                       3,864.8                               ?
Total Gov't Land       36,676.2                               ?
Total Acreage           62,147.2                   62,604.2

The almanac at the link you provided, Mike, actually appears to show LESS government land in 2000, rather than more. Strangely, it also shows more total acreage for the state.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 11:29:28 pm by johnadams »
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freedomroad

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Re:Federal Land Ownership Maps!
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2003, 11:45:46 pm »

...especially since the feds own all the best land in WY.


Please stop saying this.  I've been to Wyoming (spent over a week there and drove 900 miles).  Not only do the feds not own all of the best land, they (from what I saw) do not even own almost all, or close to all, or even near all.  Most of the good land  that I saw in the 900 miles was privately owned.  

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