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Author Topic: War with Iraq  (Read 26239 times)

Joey

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War with Iraq
« on: August 26, 2002, 09:11:56 am »


I was watching and listening closely to the morning news just now and it was reported that a Bush laywer/aid said the Constitution allows for the president to NOT ask Congress for permission before entering into a war.

Excuse me?

Someone please tell me the Law of the Land says something about "Congress may make a declaration of war."


Or is there some "claus" I'm overlooking.


Then again, I'm not surprised really. I mean, Bush had links to almost every one of the Sept. 11 surroundings:

http://www.infowars.com/resources.htm
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Halo

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2002, 11:14:27 pm »

There was an editorial column in my local newspaper which said the same thing, although I'm not sure who it was in the administration that said it. Bottom line is, no one (except Libertarians) is questioning the President's authority to wage war. Seems like since the Constitution says only Congress can declare war, as long as the President doesn't declare war, he is within the limits of his Constitutional powers. Sort of like those who believe that welfare is a Constitutional entitlement because it says right there in the Preamble, "We the People...promote the general Welfare,"
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maestro

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2002, 02:25:06 am »

There is another factor, although I don't know if it applies.  The Gulf War never ended, if I"m not mistaken, but rather went into a conditional cease-fire, whose terms Hussein appears to have broken.  As such, Congress has already given permission for the war and the president is merely still conducting the war as ordered.

This may or may not be the approach they are taking, but it does allow for the president to fight a war against Iraq if all of the above is true.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2002, 01:40:36 pm »

It could be, but then the U.S. government hasn't killed between 500,000 and 1.5 million Alaskan civilians in the process...
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wolf_tracker

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2002, 05:20:52 pm »

has everyone forgot that on or around sept 14, 2001 congress
also passed a joint resolution saying that we authorize the
president to do what ever it takes to make america safe ???

that along with the gulf war never truely ended .... should be
all that is needed...

now if you want to talk about how safe do you really feel ...
that might be a different discussion altogether...

reading the report how all those nasty knifes and box cutters
got through security is a shame ...

however that is now what allowed the planes to crash ... it
was the old rule that said act like sheep and they will let u go
the plane it pa was what would happen now

anyone trying to take over a plane i am in would have to
go through me to get to the pilots ...
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percy, aka tntsmum

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2002, 05:53:51 pm »


has everyone forgot that on or around sept 14, 2001 congress
also passed a joint resolution saying that we authorize the
president to do what ever it takes to make america safe ???

that along with the gulf war never truely ended .... should be
all that is needed...

now if you want to talk about how safe do you really feel ...
that might be a different discussion altogether...

reading the report how all those nasty knifes and box cutters
got through security is a shame ...

however that is now what allowed the planes to crash ... it
was the old rule that said act like sheep and they will let u go
the plane it pa was what would happen now

anyone trying to take over a plane i am in would have to
go through me to get to the pilots ...


Yes, additionally - Noone argues Sadaam is a psychotic mass murderer, delights in being a pychotic mass murderer, Hates the United States, Had al qaida training camps set up in Iraq where they trained specifically in taking over passenger airplanes (YES, it's on video tape)  among other ties to terrorists.
It is now official information that he is a hair's breadth away from delivery capability of nukes, has improved his capabilities in chemical and biological weapons.
But, yeah. I guess it is better to wait until he takes out a few of our major cities and DC before we act. Sounds like a good strategy.
Good God, we are not going to go in slaughtering the general populus. We dropped food and radios to the Afghanis for crying out loud and warned the civilians to clear out of potential targets. We used absolutely incredibly precise weaponry to avoid civilian casualty. Does any one remember WWs I and II? Never before has a nation gone to such lengths to ensure minimal civilain casualty.
And as for Bush being behind Sept 11..... Yeah, I know, if you look real hard at the film footage you can see the black helicopters leading the aircraft into the buildings. And just prior to the attack eyewitnesses saw swarms of men in black sheperding 5,000 Jews out of the towers. And UFOS packed with little green men beamed up all the government employees just prior to the attack. It must be true, I saw it on a website. ::)
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JasonPSorens

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2002, 07:03:45 pm »

There never were Al Qaeda camps in Iraq, nor is there any evidence to suggest that Saddam is close to having nuclear weapons.  At one time he was developing chemical weapons, but we don't even know if he has the capacity to begin his chemical-weapons program again.  Finally, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Iraq could launch missiles that could hit the US.  That's beyond the realm of fantasy.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2002, 07:04:11 pm by Jason P. Sorens »
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percy, aka tntsmum

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2002, 08:21:44 pm »

Never Al Qaeda camps in Iraq.... mmmm I've heard otherwise. There were most definately camps where terrorists were being trained in overtaking passenger airliners though. Whether Osama stroked the check for them, well, I'm willing to concede perhaps he didn't have his signature that. Maybe that check came straight from Sadaam. Check the latest news starting to leak out re: bio/chem weapons capability of Iraq. They've been busy little fellers since the inspectors left (not that the inspectors inconvenienced them TOO much) Ditto on nuclear.
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wolf_tracker

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2002, 08:30:39 pm »

i saw something on the news they interviewed a guy who
said he was a lead scientist in iraq and that there was
something like 600 metric tonnes of chemical agents of all kinds
and that they where less then 2 years from nuclear.

todays news said they tested a new missle that had a lot of
promise ...

so do we wait until they get the nukes and/or smuggle
chem and bios into our country and take out new york
or ca ... not dc ... i leave right out side of dc ...

or do we take care of ours before we let them take care of us

i vote take them out first ...

will we have world war iii ... if we attack or not ... i believe
there is a good chance within the next 5 years it will happen

:(
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wolf_tracker

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2002, 08:34:43 pm »

sorry the missle belongs to iran not iraq ... would they give
it to iraq ... to get to us .. who knows


http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020906-104201-1324r

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percy, aka tntsmum

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2002, 06:27:30 am »

The missiles just tested were Iran's, yes; however the latest intelligence says Iraq has improved the techniques it currently has for delivery of nuclear type weapons. Jason has a point that the nuclear strike on U.S. is only a distant possibility at best but that does not speak to biological and chemical attacks, nor does it speak to the possibility of Sadaam striking other nations including our allies.
I'm not a big fan of Neville Chamberlain. And yet it's apparent the Euros are still enamored of his policies.
We've already done and redone the weapons inspectors game with Sadaam. He's allowed trade and squanders the profits that should go toward the welfare of his people on golden palaces and weaponry, then says "see, the evil U.S. is starving my people" (ignoring the fact that these are U.N. restrictions on his trade and that they are engineered to allow legroom for him keep his people well)
As for WWIII, oh it WILL come if we DONT do anything. As for "destabilizing" the middle east.... give me a break. The Middle East is not stable NOW. If Sadaam is replaced with someone sane and of the peoples choice... that would do much to add stability to the region. Between him and Arafat.....what a couple of psychotic despots. Oh wait... thats right.... Arafat was "elected"... yeah, the only person that was allowed to run against him was older woman who was not allowed any media until the the day before  (or was it the day of?...) the elections. What with Arafats goons everywhere, right, she had a snowball's chance in hell.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2002, 09:20:27 am »

In principle I disagree with the idea of pre-emptive attacks on sovereign countries when we have only suspicions and hearsay about what they might be doing, and it's anybody's guess as to whether those activities would affect us in any way (as opposed to Israel or Kuwait).  Remember that in wars thousands of people are killed.  If a war is not fought purely in self-defense those killings are murders, and the people who enacted the war policy are accessories to murder.
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Patriot69

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2002, 11:09:33 am »

Quote
In principle I disagree with the idea of pre-emptive attacks on sovereign countries when we have only suspicions and hearsay about what they might be doing, and it's anybody's guess as to whether those activities would affect us in any way (as opposed to Israel or Kuwait).  Remember that in wars thousands of people are killed.  If a war is not fought purely in self-defense those killings are murders, and the people who enacted the war policy are accessories to murder.
Quote


I sincerely agree. This would be like incarcerating an individual becasue he LOOKS like a criminal and has things in COMMON with criminals. He's unshaven and drives a mid-eighties Chevrolet. We have to ask ourselves if what we have heard is really true. It's imperative that we first stop thinking that our much-beloved politicians never lie about such matters. In reality, it is their modus operandi. So, ask yourself, is Iraq a present threat to us? Let's not count the soldiers placed in harm's way, just those of us on native soil. Since it is patently obvious that aside from "terrorist activities", we are reasonably safe from attack, what then is the TRUE reason for our military adentures in someone else's backyard? Once we relenquish the old paradigm of US honesty, you'll see through this quite easily, I think. Once we stop invading the homelands of others, we may find the world is alot more peaceful...
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wolf_tracker

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2002, 12:28:49 pm »

i believe that we should not give any country foreign aid or
send our troops to any other country ...

but once you threaten us ... then u get ur butt kicked ...

i watched the interview that says how close iraq is to getting
nukes ... and i believe he has the 600 metric tonnes of
chemicals ... he has used them already on his own people

if he used them on his own ppl how can you not think
he will use them on the great satan ...

jason ... if i told you i hate you with all my heart and soul
and that i am going to get u or ur family ...

and then u saw me going to the gun store down town and
but the means to hurt u and ur family ...

and then i come walking down the walk of your house

at what point will you try to stop me ... will you wait til
i pull the weapon and shot u or ur family ...

or while i am walking down the walk ...

exactly when would you say it is not worth any further
risk ... and take the person out ...

i might wait til u r gone then go after ur family to make u
hurt before i take u out ... maybe even starting with a
beloved pet ...

with wmd ... do u have to take out ny, sf, dc, den
before you will protect what is urs ...

i am all for isolations ... no foreign aid ... no sticking nose
in other peoples buisiness ...

i just can not agree that when u say u r coming having
me or mine to let u get close enuf to do it

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wolf_tracker

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Re:War with Iraq
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2002, 12:34:37 pm »


Quote

I sincerely agree. This would be like incarcerating an individual becasue he LOOKS like a criminal and has things in COMMON with criminals.


sorry i disagree ... who said anything about looks ... iraq does not
look like a terriost country ... it is a terriost country ...

i have seen undercover cops and know about looks ... but when some
one has killed two or three people ... and that person is walking
toward me with a weapon drawn ... do i have to wait til them
pull the trigger to defend myself ... i am sorry i will not wait til the
kill me ... before i take them out ...

we have not said take china out ... or take russia out who it would appear
are aiding iran and iraq ... we are talking about the person who has
already used wmd on their own country and who said they hate the
great satan ... us ...

if it walks like a terriost ... talks like a terriost and acts like a terriost


i am sorry it is a terriost ...

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