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Author Topic: State Climates Report  (Read 42182 times)

JasonPSorens

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State Climates Report
« on: August 25, 2002, 11:42:06 am »

The State Climates Report by Jan Helfeld has been added to the website:
http://www.freestateproject.org/climate.htm
« Last Edit: August 25, 2002, 12:03:00 pm by Jason P. Sorens »
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

marciesmom

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2002, 01:53:05 pm »

I'm glad Jan put in the disclaimer about weather (hot/cold) not being the only factor in consideration, because I can hear the westies (west-oriented people) grumbling at the east coast bias.  I know this east/west thing goes in spurts, but it seems to be all east coast, all the time around here.  Okay, I'm done complaining.
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stpeter

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2002, 03:59:33 pm »

I posted the following message on the mailing list:

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With all due respect to Jan and the time he put into this report, we're not running a country club here, we're trying to found a free society. Washington's army wasn't warm and comfy at Valley Forge. It seems to me that within reason the colder climates (and concomitant lower population densities, not to mention lack of attractiveness to your average busybody bureaucrat) would work better for us than states where comfort is so easy to come by. Climate may be one decision factor for some folks, but I see it as a personal preference and not a decision factor for the FSP per se. We need to be focused on the factors conducive to freedom, not comfort.

IMHO, of course.

Peter
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bakedchip

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2002, 03:27:27 pm »


With all due respect to Jan and the time he put into this report, we're not running a country club here, we're trying to found a free society. Washington's army wasn't warm and comfy at Valley Forge. It seems to me that within reason the colder climates (and concomitant lower population densities, not to mention lack of attractiveness to your average busybody bureaucrat) would work better for us than states where comfort is so easy to come by. Climate may be one decision factor for some folks, but I see it as a personal preference and not a decision factor for the FSP per se. We need to be focused on the factors conducive to freedom, not comfort.

IMHO, of course.

Peter

As much as disregarding all climate concerns would be nice, it is not an option for everyone.  For those who have bad cases of asthma, or arthritis, or have suffered an injury, the cold and/or humidity can be an enormous burden.

- Chip Spangler
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Zxcv

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2002, 04:03:48 pm »

Yeah, and some of us have wives, too. And some of those wives may not be cold-weather types. And some of us husbands may not quite be up to ordering wives to follow us wherever we may want to go. :o
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Mark

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2002, 04:04:02 pm »

right now it's freezing cold here in central NY (similiar to VT, NH and Maine I would guess). It's hot and humid during the summer. Even Toronto, Canada had killer heat wave this past summer. Every state other than Delaware is pretty much the same weather wise in my opinion.



Delaware may have an early spring and mild fall but I would assume the mid atlantic weather gets mighty humid during the summer. And the population density and land market prices / taxes aint nothing to praise.
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freedomroad

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2002, 04:21:47 pm »

Quote
Quote


As much as disregarding all climate concerns would be nice, it is not an option for everyone.  For those who have bad cases of asthma, or arthritis, or have suffered an injury, the cold and/or humidity can be an enormous burden.

- Chip Spangler


If humid weather is a problem then DE might need to be opted out.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2002, 04:23:19 pm by FreedomRoad »
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Zxcv

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2002, 05:03:26 pm »

This climate report needs work.

First, Rehoboth Beach is not representative of Delaware. If Delaware were our state, most of us would be up around Wilmington - that is, if we wanted to get anything done! Using Rehoboth Beach is using a climate moderated by ocean air, a nice trick.

Second, the report is unfairly subjective. It is one thing to make the general observation that people like mild climates, it's another thing entirely to translate that into specifics or make judgements on that basis.

For example, Delaware has a winter climate similar to my home in Western Oregon. After living here for years, I am ready for a sunnier winter, even if it means a colder winter. Clouds and rain are oppressive after a while, and you can't get much outside work done while it is raining - not the case with a climate 10 degrees colder, but sunny.

Another example: some people, such as myself, do not like summer humidity. I'd much rather have the hot summer of Idaho since it is a dry summer, than a muggy mid-Atlantic climate. Humidity information is missing on these reports, making Delaware appear more tolerable than it really is. The information about "heating degree days" and "cooling degree days" also conveniently eliminates humidity information (although I'm not sure of that, otherwise why would DE have the greatest number for cooling degree days??) Your definition for it does not mention humidity, anyway.

Finally, some people love the change of seasons. Some like some snow on the ground in winter. You spend most of the time in winter inside the house anyway, so it hardly matters if one place is colder than the other.

The subjective nature of the report should be eliminated, by removing references like "worse" and "better" and replacing them with "colder", "warmer" and the like.

Humidity information needs to be included.

Wind information needs to be included.

Links to the original data (for each table) need to be included.

Just a general observation about weather: It's hard to beat Spring in the desert, with flowers all around and clear sky and moderate temperatures (during the day). It's hard to beat Autumn in the eastern deciduous forests. Summer is great along the coastlines where the ocean air moderates the temperature. Winter is great in the mountains where you can ski and have some fun in the sun. All the candidate states have their climatic good and bad points. Let's not let this issue be too high on our list of criteria for deciding our state.
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redbeard

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2002, 08:51:44 pm »

As much as disregarding all climate concerns would be nice, it is not an option for everyone.  For those who have bad cases of asthma, or arthritis, or have suffered an injury, the cold and/or humidity can be an enormous burden.

- Chip Spangler

Quote
Yeah, and some of us have wives, too. And some of those wives may not be cold-weather types. And some of us husbands may not quite be up to ordering wives to follow us wherever we may want to go.

Jeez. Rugged individuals we ain't. Thank God Washington and the old school had a pair, eh?
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MouseBorg

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2002, 09:36:46 pm »

Quote
author=redbeard
Jeez. Rugged individuals we ain't. Thank God Washington and the old school had a pair, eh?

Ahh, the age old question... What Price Liberty?

Of course, as time passes, the price always increases. Historically, the majority of people tend to wait till that price is life itself.

We have but a small space in time before the legislation passed since 911 (and the additional legislation yet to follow) begins to be fully enforced. Those who have thoroughly read the existing legislation understand the implications. Those who have not need to promptly do so.

If climate is still a serious issue for a majority, then that simply tells us that the Price of Liberty needs to increase a bit more. Be patient - it will. Perhaps a year or two, maybe even less, and climate will become a null factor when balanced against Liberty. Some already understand this aspect. Some don't... yet.

"Still if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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Mark

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2002, 11:42:34 pm »

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."



that being said I would enjoy wearing a coyboy hat and playing the part.


 ;D
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Mark

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2002, 11:45:14 pm »

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:

Column 1
Georgia:
   Button Gwinnett
   Lyman Hall
   George Walton

Column 2
North Carolina:
   William Hooper
   Joseph Hewes
   John Penn
South Carolina:
   Edward Rutledge
   Thomas Heyward, Jr.
   Thomas Lynch, Jr.
   Arthur Middleton

Column 3
Massachusetts:
John Hancock
Maryland:
Samuel Chase
William Paca
Thomas Stone
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe
Richard Henry Lee
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Carter Braxton

Column 4
Pennsylvania:
   Robert Morris
   Benjamin Rush
   Benjamin Franklin
   John Morton
   George Clymer
   James Smith
   George Taylor
   James Wilson
   George Ross
Delaware:
   Caesar Rodney
   George Read
   Thomas McKean

Column 5
New York:
   William Floyd
   Philip Livingston
   Francis Lewis
   Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
   Richard Stockton
   John Witherspoon
   Francis Hopkinson
   John Hart
   Abraham Clark

Column 6
New Hampshire:
   Josiah Bartlett
   William Whipple
Massachusetts:
   Samuel Adams
   John Adams
   Robert Treat Paine
   Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
   Stephen Hopkins
   William Ellery
Connecticut:
   Roger Sherman
   Samuel Huntington
   William Williams
   Oliver Wolcott
New Hampshire:
   Matthew Thornton




 
 
 
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Mark

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2002, 12:12:49 am »

hmmm, nothing about weather...
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MouseBorg

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2002, 12:24:59 am »

Yes, the list of Oppressions in that Document reads pretty much the same now as it did back then. Odd coincidence. I often wonder how many people have actually noticed this?

It would appear that many underestimate the malignant nature of the current situation... which is somewhat disturbing, as it is more than passingly obvious.
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Mark

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Re:State Climates Report
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2002, 12:37:53 am »

yep.



*my agreement with MouseBorg isn't a vote for Wyoming.*
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