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Author Topic: Lots of questions  (Read 3211 times)

ApostateAbe

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Lots of questions
« on: August 16, 2003, 08:02:27 pm »

I am already a member because I love the idea so much that I couldn't hold myself back.  I signed up as soon as I found the web site.  But it may have been premature, because I don't have the vaguest idea how the new government is going to be structured.  Are we going to have the standard three branches?  What relationship will it have with the United States government?  I want as much detail as possible about all this stuff.  If it isn't secession, then what is it?

Will we have state-built streets and zoning laws?  How would we clean our water?  Are we going to have traffic laws and cops to enforce them?  What about an FDA to regulate food, drugs, and their labels?

Wouldn't the poor stay poor in the new free state?  They wouldn't have the money to get an education, and they would have to work below what would be minimum wage.  What would prevent the return of worker exploitation and abuse that was common in 1900 America?
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Tony

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Re:Lots of questions
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2003, 08:28:14 pm »

The system of government will be the same as it is now, with a few tweaks possibly added.  We will maintain a republican form of government.

Hopefully we'll be able to defeat all of the zoning laws and privatize the streets, but those issues are a bit premature.  We will still have peace officers, but they'll be tasked only with enforcing laws against force and fraud.  Hopefully we'll make it a lot easier to fire sleazy cops.

The FDA will still exist, but we probably wouldn't make a state level equivalent.

The poor will be able to get aid from charitable organizations and will be able to work.  If they have any skills they'll do fine.  With taxes reduced significantly people will be able to donate more money to scholarship funds and other charities.
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Justin

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Re:Lots of questions
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2003, 09:16:49 pm »

Welcome!  I'll attempt to answer some of your questions.  ;D

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If it isn't secession, then what is it?

It is simply "a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to a single state of the U.S., where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. "  That's it really.  What exactly will happen when we move is still up for debate.


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Will we have state-built streets and zoning laws?

As with most things, it will be done in baby-steps.  Changes in (read: removal of) zoning laws are high on many members' to-do lists.  As for the roads, that may be a while.


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How would we clean our water?

Given that utilities are currently implemented as government controlled monopolies, much like the roads, this will likely remain unchanged for a while.  Ideally the water and purification system would be privately owned, though issues of competition need to be worked out.

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Are we going to have traffic laws and cops to enforce them?

Yes on both counts, but with regard to traffic laws they should not be different from non-traffic laws, i.e. based on the initiaion or threat of force principle.  Riding without a helmet is not an initiation nor threat of force, thus you should not be threated with jail or the deprivation of your property (fines) because of it.


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What about an FDA to regulate food, drugs, and their labels?

I think most FSPers are focussed on changing state and local law before tackling the leviathan in D.C.


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Wouldn't the poor stay poor in the new free state?  They wouldn't have the money to get an education, and they would have to work below what would be minimum wage.  What would prevent the return of worker exploitation and abuse that was common in 1900 America?

I am surprised one who is willing to join the FSP does not already know that the above is a fallacy.  While there are many texts on the web that can explain this very well, I will make my own attempt:

There are two approaches, the ideologic and the economic.  

Ideologically speaking, so long as no force nor fraud is being used in an interaction between two people, the government has no right to initiate force by mandating or forbidding or altering the conditions of the interaction.  You don't have to work for me, and I don't have to hire you.  If you choose to work for me, and I choose to hire you, the conditions of that arrangement have to be agreed upon by both of us.

Now for the more complex economics:

The price of goods in a free market is determined naturally through a process of objective analysis.  How much does a hamburger cost?  Well, it costs no more than people are willing to pay, and no less than the maker is willing to sell it for.  How much does an employee cost? no more than an employer is willing to pay, no less that the employee is willing to work.

Practically speaking, minimum wage laws only apply to jobs thay would otherwise pay less, the true value being determined by the free market.  Break that balance by setting wages artificially high and employers must do one of three things:

1) Reduce Profit: All things being equal there is only a finite amount of profit available from which the government can forcibly transfer to the worker.  Many small business barely make enough to stay open, thus minimum wage laws help kill off small business, thus tranferring purchases to large companies that can better absorb wage increases.

2) Raise prices: If the businessman's competitors also have to raise prices, and prices overall artificially rise above market value, then this has the effect of a hidden welfare tax.

3) Reduce costs: As with reducing profit, this is a limited option.  Typically this is implemented by laying off workers and asking the rest to do more.


I pity the homeless man that is willing to work for $1/hour sweeping a storeroom floor, but is turned away because if the owner hires him, the owner could go to jail.

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Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot

LeopardPM

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Re:Lots of questions
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2003, 10:28:57 pm »

the two main effects of the Minimum Wage Laws:
Keep new workers (ie: teenagers etc) from obtaining lower paying 'apprentiships' <my spelling is atrocious!> which would allow them to obtain skills to get higher paying jobs in the future.

Minimum Wage is also a great boon to Unions, helping to raise 'the floor' to base their demands on from employers


note: the unions were major supporters in getting the law passed - teenagers were not allowed to vote...
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LeopardPM

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Re:Lots of questions
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2003, 10:59:21 pm »

Dearest ApostateAbe,
In review of your comment:

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ApostateAbe  Posted on: Today at 06:02:27pm  
I am already a member because I love the idea so much that I couldn't hold myself back.  I signed up as soon as I found the web site.  But it may have been premature...


I understand your excitement, BUT, I suggest you start reading and researching... Libertarianism.  This is not a fad or cult, we are a group of very serious (mostly) folks who are willing to relocate their families, change jobs/careers (probably going to lower paying ones at first...), and basically modify their entire lives in the hope that they can truly have a noticeable effect on the freedom in the state they will be living.  These folks are committing to becoming extreme activists (not militant, just persistent) in 'getting the word out' in the Free State.

Some basic ideas you need to understand:
Legalization of: all drugs, prostitution, euthanasia
Support: Gay Marriage, full and unhindered immigration, Free Trade with no Tariffs (basically)
Against: Affirmative Action, Welfare, Public Schooling, Taxes of every sort, Aggressive use of the Military by the government, federal health care, social security, just about every governmental 'social' program, any gun control legislation

believe in: True family values, responsibility, free market

Core Belief: against the initiation of force or fraud against a fellow human being by a person, group, business, or government

View this flash movie: http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
for your first introduction... then see how those values apply to the above for/against beliefs above... ask questions in this forum, I will answer whatever I can and others who have much greater knowledge are at your disposal also... use these resources, they will serve you well

welcome! and congratulations!
michael

BTW: I made a mistake - the Free State Project is not a libertarian organization, there are plenty of us within it, BUT, there are plenty of other freedom-seeking groups also: Constitutionalists, Green, even a few repulicans and democrats.... so, I do not speak for all and you will find a variety of discussions involving both sides of those for/against policies above... its just that my views are the correct ones (j/k all, couldn't resist!)
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ApostateAbe

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Re:Lots of questions
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2003, 12:45:50 am »

Thanks all of you!  Especially Justin and Michael.
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