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Author Topic: Legalize Drugs: NH, VT?  (Read 6318 times)

Luck

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Legalize Drugs: NH, VT?
« on: September 08, 2014, 07:18:53 am »

(Last post is most recent.)




Is anyone else concerned that the govt is apparently allowing Mexican drug cartels to bring MidEast terrorists and cartel thugs into the U.S. along the Mexican border, as reported by Oathkeepers? I have some questions below. Here's the OK post and the quote:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=24272.msg295943#msg295943
Quote
Drug Cartels are taking over our Mexican border lands in the U.S. and bringing in Middle Eastern terrorists and Cartel thugs.

Oathkeepers describes the situation here:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/09/04/texas-border-ranchers-fear-for-their-lives-and-families-appeal-for-help/

And see these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_Ix6OEaMI&list=UU-OvPXGAoeZsnzqq6IOZWfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxnwYg7dMZI&list=UU-OvPXGAoeZsnzqq6IOZWfw

Fernando explains that the standing orders of the Border Patrol are:
    They’re not even to draw their weapon on  these people – if they can they are supposed to just continue on their way, move out and leave them alone.  And to me, that puts my family in danger because that [open] gate is right at the end of my street.  If they leave them alone , let them continue on their business, they’re going to end up on my property.
[/i]

1. Why would the govt tell the Border Patrol to allow such dangerous people to come into the U.S.?

2. Or why would Oathkeepers lie about this? (Are they authoritarian Mormons like CSPOA?)

3. Is the govt doing this in order to have an excuse to put people in FEMA camps, or similar ones, like SC is said to be doing with homeless people?

4. Is this issue of border security against cartels etc being discussed in the NH legislature?

5. Do you have any other major concerns?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 10:11:49 am by Luck »
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dalebert

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Re: Huge Concerns?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 08:32:00 am »

2. Or why would Oathkeepers lie about this? (Are they authoritarian Mormons like CSPOA?)

Are you kidding me? Okay, first, I'm not saying they ARE lying, but the "why" is not rocket science. They are anti-immigration and want everyone else to be too. *shrug*

Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 09:47:23 pm »

Where do they say or show that they're anti-immigration?

For example, this article shows that they opposed Obama's releasing 68,000 immigrants into the U.S. who were criminals:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/04/02/illegal-immigration-check-your-premises/

I have no problem with free immigration, but I don't support immigration of dangerous criminals. That's comparable to an invasion. The purpose of self-govt is to organize for mutual self-defense. Releasing criminals among us undermines our defenses of the right to pursue happiness etc.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 10:38:09 pm by Luck »
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MaineShark

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Re: Huge Concerns?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 11:10:44 am »

Where do they say or show that they're anti-immigration?

For example, this article shows that they opposed Obama's releasing 68,000 immigrants into the U.S. who were criminals:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/04/02/illegal-immigration-check-your-premises/

I have no problem with free immigration, but I don't support immigration of dangerous criminals. That's comparable to an invasion. The purpose of self-govt is to organize for mutual self-defense. Releasing criminals among us undermines our defenses of the right to pursue happiness etc.

That article proves Dale's point.  Note that they don't list what sort of crimes those criminals committed?  Are they "dangerous criminals," as you claim and the article implies, or are they just folks who violated some ridiculous law which did not relate to any actual crime (ie, something with a victim)?  How many of them are "criminals" for immigration violations (in which case the system is self-fulfilling, and someone arguing for "free immigration" would have to say that they are not, in any legitimate sense, actually criminals)?
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

dalebert

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Re: Huge Concerns?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 08:28:32 pm »

Where do they say or show that they're anti-immigration?

In that article, for starters. It's just as Maineshark explained.

Quote
Obama administration is refusing to remove violent immigrants from US communities and generally refusing to enforce immigration regulations.

What else does that mean if not that they think immigration regulations should be generally enforced? It's not just about violent immigrants, and let's face it. Most of them aren't.

Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns? (about Border Security, Immigration Rights and?)
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2014, 12:28:19 am »

Some probable causes were mentioned in the article, such as the invaders are carrying weapons and running people off their ranches along the border; many wear the tattoos of drug cartels; some appear to be potential Middle East terrorists. Instead of them having free entry into this country, I think they should be checked to make sure they aren't dangerous invaders, as they appear to be, and the local ranchers and others need to be protected from invasion.
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Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Several Successful Resistances at Checkpoints)
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2014, 12:31:37 am »

This has a video of several people successfully resisting various checkpoints:
http://www.flexyourrights.org/top-dhs-checkpoint-refusals/

The Flex Your Rights organization seems interesting. They recommend dashcams etc.
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MaineShark

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Re: Huge Concerns? (about Border Security, Immigration Rights and?)
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2014, 07:07:02 am »

Some probable causes were mentioned in the article, such as the invaders are carrying weapons and running people off their ranches along the border; many wear the tattoos of drug cartels; some appear to be potential Middle East terrorists. Instead of them having free entry into this country, I think they should be checked to make sure they aren't dangerous invaders, as they appear to be, and the local ranchers and others need to be protected from invasion.

None of those are mentioned in the article that claims criminals were released.  Those are mentioned in an article which cites only unsubstantiated claims by anti-immigration individuals who have every reason to invent such fantasies.  There is no reason to believe that even a single word of what was said is true.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

dalebert

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2014, 08:51:48 am »

It sounds like your basic and not particularly creative or believable hate-mongering. They want people terrified of brown people. I say those folks have some pretty outrageous claims that call for some pretty substantial evidence, i.e. put up or shut up.

Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2014, 01:37:25 pm »

If you guys can't show anti-immigration wording on the Oathkeepers website anywhere, then you're just spouting your impressions. I believe Stewart Rhodes is libertarian. They encourage cops and military not to obey orders that violate people's rights. I think you guys have inaccurate impressions, unless you can show definitive prejudice on their site. You seem to consider them white separatists or something and I'm pretty sure they're nothing like that. The ranchers they interviewed about the cartelists and terrorists crossing the border are Mexican-American ranchers.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 01:39:50 pm by Luck »
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Auspicious Aspect

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2014, 02:50:41 pm »

If you guys can't show anti-immigration wording on the Oathkeepers website anywhere, then you're just spouting your impressions. I believe Stewart Rhodes is libertarian. They encourage cops and military not to obey orders that violate people's rights. I think you guys have inaccurate impressions, unless you can show definitive prejudice on their site. You seem to consider them white separatists or something and I'm pretty sure they're nothing like that. The ranchers they interviewed about the cartelists and terrorists crossing the border are Mexican-American ranchers.

What makes you think that ranchers, Mexican-American or otherwise, would be experts in identifying "cartelists and terrorists"?

It seems unlikely that there are any terrorists crossing into the US at all. And why would "cartelists" come here? There are already plenty of Americans who are happy to do that work for the cartels. Terrorists here, too, tend to be home-grown, albeit remarkably weak and ineffective.
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MaineShark

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2014, 07:41:02 pm »

If you guys can't show anti-immigration wording on the Oathkeepers website anywhere, then you're just spouting your impressions.

You provided the link, right at the beginning of this thread.  The entire article is just some nutty anti-immigration propaganda piece.  It's fabrication, designed to attack immigrants.  It's not even good fabrication - nonsense like declaring that "Rusty" is "#5 on [the cartels'] list of targets in Texas, because he has refused to knuckle under to them" - how would the author of the article be able to make such a claim?  Do the cartels send him press releases, listing who they intend to hit, and the priority given to each target?  It's ridiculous - if the author wanted to at least make up believable lies, he should have said something like, "Rusty has recieved death threats from someone claiming to be a cartel hit-man" or somesuch.  The whole article is full of things which are clearly fabrications, because there's no possible way the author could know them.

And it doesn't even make logical sense.  If these cartels are such a huge danger, and "Rusty" is their "#5 target," why is he still breathing?  These incredibly dangerous cartels could eliminate him like swatting a fly, so why is he still walking around?

No, the whole article is an anti-immigrant propaganda piece that is chock full of obvious lies.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

dalebert

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 08:35:33 am »

If you guys can't show anti-immigration wording on the Oathkeepers website anywhere, then you're just spouting your impressions.

On top of what Maineshark just said, I actually quoted your source article. Why are you asking us to repeat ourselves? Here, so you don't have to use your mouse wheel to scroll up--

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=27929.msg296025#msg296025

I'm not sure how they could more plainly state it. That is practically straight out of the right-wing Republican anti-immigration playbook -- "Enforce the LAWR! Stop these law-breakers!"

Translation: People crossing the arbitrary border we created without our permission, our reams of paperwork, our waiting lists, etc.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 08:45:54 am by dalebert »
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Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Border Security, Immigration, Checkpoints)
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2014, 11:01:37 pm »

News on the Border "Threat"
From the online news stories below, you can see that terrorists were supposedly caught crossing the Mexican border last year; then in February or so there were statements made of terrorists getting ready to cross again; then in August there were more statements, this time by TX Gov Perry; then law enforcement in Texas was notified supposedly by the federal govt that terrorists may be preparing to cross; then there were Muslim objects found in various places in the U.S. along the border, which I suspect may have been planted; and then DHS and the federal govt claim there is no known threat there, but various people in these reports, including law enforcement, are saying the border is wide open. I haven't found much info on cartelists crossing the border as yet. But it seems that some of the feds are trying to stir up fear. Maybe it's just a clever scheme to help capture terrorists or prevent terrorism. Ha, ha. I don't know if Oathkeepers' sources are very good, but maybe they were fooled, or maybe not.

Lies about Oathkeepers
I see all kinds of nonsense and hatred against Oathkeepers online. They all want to call Oathkeepers a right wing extremist anti-govt hate group and every bad word imaginable, whereas OK is nothing at all like that. They seek to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and the name callers totally ignore that reality in favor of their own make-believe. OK is basically libertarian, as far as I can tell. If you know the history of the group, that's what it most obviously is. People seem to be listening only to the name-callers and not to OK itself at all. (See Middle American Radicals, by Patrick J. Buchanan: http://takimag.com/article/middle_american_radicals/print#axzz3ElmYFaOq )

Back to the Border News Stories
Mainstream Media: Americans Against Wide Open Borders Are “Anti-Immigration”
http://mountainrepublic.net/2014/08/08/mainstream-media-americans-against-wide-open-borders-are-anti-immigration

Is ISIS in Mexico and planning to cross the border?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/sep/17/trent-franks/isis-mexico-and-planning-cross-border

Conservative Media Echo Spurious Report On Threat Of Islamic State Terrorists Crossing U.S.-Mexico Border
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/09/05/conservative-media-echo-spurious-report-on-thre/200660

Online posts show ISIS eyeing Mexican border, says law enforcement bulletin
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/29/online-posts-show-isis-eyeing-mexican-border-says-law-enforcment-bulletin

[Watch] Muslim Terrorists Crossing US/Mexican Border Leave Their Prayer Rug Behind
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/07/02/watch-muslim-terrorists-crossing-usmexican-border-leave-prayer-rug-behind

Texas Sheriff: Reports Warn Of ISIS Terrorist Cells Coming Across The Border
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/15/texas-sheriff-reports-warn-of-isis-terrorist-cells-coming-across-the-border


ISIS Terrorists May Already Be Operating in a Mexico Border Town Waiting to Enter the US, Intelligence Sources Say
http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-terrorists-may-already-be-operating-in-a-mexico-border-town-waiting-to-cross-into-the-us-intelligence-sources-say-125757

ISIS Says, “The US-Mexican Border Is Now Open”, And Are Planning On Crossing Into The United States Through The US-Mexican Border
http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/09/01/isis-says-us-mexican-border-now-open-planning-crossing-united-states-us-mexican-border

Muslim Terrorists Caught Crossing US Border
http://mrconservative.com/2013/06/18667-muslim-terrorists-caught-crossing-us-border

DHS Denies Muslim Terrorists Crossing US Mexican Border – Local Reporter Finds Evidence to the Contrary
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/02/dhs-denies-muslim-terrorists-crossing-us-mexican-border-local-reporter-finds-evidence-contrary/

Pentagon, Mexico reject Perry warning that ISIS terrorists sneak from Mexico into US
http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2014/08/pentagon-rejects-perry-warning-that-isis-terrorists-sneak-from-mexico-into-us.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:12:29 am by Luck »
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Luck

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Re: Huge Concerns? (Obama's DHS Targeting Liberty Activists after Midterms)
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2014, 09:55:18 am »

DHS vs. Freedom-Oriented People
http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-to-intensify-attacks-on-freedom-oriented-citizens

This purge would be in the form of prosecution through the courts. The objective would be to silence their voices and remove them from society by tossing them into prison where they could spend years and a ton of money attempting to get out of jail and defend their reputations. The "progressives" in the administration and Congress believe that the lame duck period just after the November midterm elections is the time to move swiftly to get these things done. Obama doesn't have to face reelection. And if the internal polling being done by both Democrats and Republicans is true, the Democrats will be forced into minority status in the Senate in addition to the House. Thus, in the two months after the election prior to the time when the new Congress is sworn in in January of 2015, a golden opportunity exists for the "progressive" elitist tyrants to make their move.

More Free Town Project
[A lot of people apparently still read this forum, so that's why I still post here.]
I initially titled this thread: More Free Town Project or Free County Project. And here's what I said about it back in September.

Government is moral, if it is self-government and if it is not abusive.
Most governments in the U.S. have become incorporated, apparently. Does anyone have much knowledge about corporate government law and the history of corporate government? Know any good literature on it?

The Constitution is said to be the supreme law of the nation, but corporate governments seem to like to deny that.

Ideas to Improve Local Government

If libertarians get elected to local office, here are some proposals I have for local ordinances.
- Make all local Residents co-owners of local government property, taxfree.
- Deputize all local residents who have committed no major crimes.
[And issue free driver's licenses and plates to all deputies, or all residents.]
- Local government should not prosecute "illegal" drug users; just prosecute violent people and promote recovery programs for addicts.
- Protect Residents from corrupt government via Oathkeepers etc, by not permitting state or federal officers from prosecuting tax "evasion", driving without license or insurance, "illegal" drug users, or other abusive policies.
- Local government should buy goods wholesale for local Residents to increase their buying power.
- Have a health department to promote good health to residents and to counter false media propaganda.
- Try CAFR1.com etc for no taxation.
- Try Michael Hudson's Econonics, minimum wage job guarantee, etc, to prevent poverty.
- Promote Savory's Antidesertification, Organic Farming, permaculture, etc, to improve the land for present and future generations.


How the Ruling Class Maintains Hereditary Power

I first heard of Catherine Austin Fitts maybe 10 years ago. She has a website called Solari.com, which occasionally used to have some interesting articles, but it's generally a rather boring site, I think, although she seems to have some good info on how the Ruling Class is screwing over the rest of the people.

Here's a video of her from last year that I viewed recently:
Catherine Austin Fitts at the Secret Space Program Conference, 2014 San Mateo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0mimIp8mr8

Destroy Communities, Then Buy the Land Cheap
At the 22 minute mark, she explained that the Ruling Class has been behind bringing drugs into communities, via the CIA etc, and doing mortgage fraud, to destroy the communities with communities' own money, then the Ruling Class can buy up the property real cheap. They have plenty of other ways to screw us over though, such as the following example.

Last winter I was in the L.A. area, riding with some friends on the freeway. We passed an exit that used to provide convenient access to the community around Universal Studios and someone mentioned that it's too bad the government is closing that exit, because it greatly increases traffic congestion and people in that community now have to go a long way to get on and off the freeway. They said the people in the L.A. area complained a lot about closing the exit and they lobbied to keep it open, but the government ignored the people. Then I found that Universal Studios is trying to expand and build a theme park or something. So closing the exit should benefit them a lot, because demand for housing in that area will go down and owners will have to sell at lower prices, so Universal can buy up such properties cheap. The stock holders of Universal obviously have a lot of clout with the California government.

Community Land Trusts for Protection
http://www.thenation.com/article/how-to-get-rid-of-your-landlord-and-socialize-american-housing-in-3-easy-steps/
Here's an excerpt from this article. It's not about socialism, but self-government.
- But why endow private profit-motivated interests control over construction at all? There is no reason to suspect that a given property-development capitalist should be more capable of determining for a community what optimally desirable new buildings to produce than the community itself is. Luckily, there is an entity capable of turning development over to the most concerned parties: nonprofit community land trusts, their boards typically composed at least one-third of residents, take land off the market, and lease homes long-term to residents at below-market rates, retaining the majority of the home equity gained over time.
- The predominantly black and Latino residents of the Dudley Street area of Roxbury, one of Boston’s poorest neighborhoods, got Boston city officials to take the unprecedented step of granting the power of eminent domain to the community for more than 1,300 parcels of abandoned land. With this tract, the Dudley Street Neighborhood Initiative (DSNI) established a community land trust that has democratically directed a renovation project resulting in hundreds of affordable-housing units and other public spaces, among them community centers, new schools, a community greenhouse, parks, and playgrounds.
- While the rest of Boston has lately struggled with a blight of post-bubble vacancies, followed by a massive wave of turn-overs due to rising rents, residents of DSNI’s land trust maintained a stable community. Most of the first batch of houses sold on the trust still contain their initial owners, who are passing them on to their children. “If you’re looking to buy a house, flip it, and speculate elsewhere,” says Tony Hernandez, longtime resident and director of operations for the land trust, “you’d better move on, because that’s not what this is intended for.”


Secret Space Program
I didn't listen to any of the secret space program info lately, but I heard about it 20 years ago. There's also discussion of underground bases, which I heard of back then too. Catherine talked about trillions of dollars that go missing from the Pentagon and other agencies every year, which she says goes into a black budget and which the government has no control over. She used to work in HUD under Bush Sr., so she got a lot of her info that way. She tried to get defense contractors to give her info on how much money they spend and what it's used for, but the contractors refused to give her the info. She says the contractors now control the government.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:19:02 pm by Luck »
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