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[Kipper]

Hey guys,

Just doing a quick intro as well as posting a few questions. Currently living in Va and I have been considering the move to NH for a few years now. I have not officially signed up but I am a friend of the movement. I am single, in my early 30's and I am currently going back to school for a career in the IT field (hopefully!). Although I am busy with school and work at the moment, I do not have any family obligations that could prevent me from making the move. I am currently in the retail/restaurant field and have around 13 years or so in management  so I am not overly concerned about finding work in NH. That being said I do have a few questions about NH.

Though being around people of a similar mindset is a wonderful benefit, I am curious about how different living in NH is versus another state. I am not sure if there are any people from Va who could help with this but any info on this would  be nice. Are the taxes so low that they really do free up a noticeable chunk of income? Are people in NH much more lax when it comes to what others do? I ask this question because I have read not to disclose to a future landlord or employer that you are joining the FSP. I understand the reasoning behind that but we are moving to make an impact on government and that gets done by getting the message out. I don't want to move and feel the urge to keep all my intentions private in fear of ridicule, I get enough of that here in the Commonwealth. Although I know it is a long hard fight, do you all feel there has been progress?

I am looking through the forums so I apologize in advance because I am sure these types of questions have been asked in some shape or form. I am looking at a three month window for my move and I do plan to spend a week or so in NH to get a feel for it. I just need to make sure I can get some time free as my schooling is doing a great job of keeping me busy.

Thanks guys!
 


 

[MaineShark]

Are the taxes so low that they really do free up a noticeable chunk of income?

Depending upon the state from which you are moving, the effect can be significant.  Some folks may take a pay cut when they move, and actually see an increase in available cashflow because of the lower taxes.

Are people in NH much more lax when it comes to what others do?

Live free or die is our motto.  There are always exceptions, but you'll find a greater portion of the population that's content to let you do your own thing than in most other places.  In general, folks may actually seem "cold" because they typically won't ask you personal questions.

I ask this question because I have read not to disclose to a future landlord or employer that you are joining the FSP. I understand the reasoning behind that but we are moving to make an impact on government and that gets done by getting the message out.

It's not a matter of hiding.  It's a matter of not sharing that, initially, so they get a chance to know you as a person, first.  Don't make your initial impression as "that political guy."  Make your initial impression as "that guy who's always helpful and has reasonable things to say."  That way, when you do express a social or political opinion, the listener thinks, "this guy always seems to have his head on straight, so if he says that ____ is a good idea, I should really look into it."

The FSP is primarily about education.  We'd need 100,000 movers, or more, in order to actually "take over" even a state as small as NH.  Not going to happen, by any stretch of the imagination.  The only way this whole thing works is if each mover convinces five, ten, maybe twenty or so existing NH residents to support liberty.  Make good first and second impressions, so folks will listen to your opinions in a positive light.  Start out by earning a reputation for reasonableness and decency and then, as someone who has moved (and probably has a different accent than "us," so that will be obvious), you're probably in a good position to comment on how amazing NH is when compared to other places.  NH isn't perfect, but it's already more pro-liberty than the overwhelming majority of other places, so talk about that - most folks are happy to hear that their home is wonderful, and if the reasons you give are related to how much liberty we have, then they will draw reasonable conclusions about what makes NH so much better (if everyone compliments your garden in front of your house, are you likely to tear it out, or are you likely to make it bigger and better?).

[b2b_dna]

Shark--well said.

My impression is that the NH economy is strong, thus people have a bias for, and respect for, hard work and industriousness that differs from other places I have lived.  Where I live( the Upper Valley) is more liberal than other spots, but has a quality that everybody who chooses to live there does so for a reason.  They thus embrace, enthusiastically, the best the region offers...beautiful outdoor recreation, local food and beer, and community involvement.

If you live with gusto, you will love NH well beyond the under current liberty politics.

[Kipper]

Thanks for the responses guys. I am firm believer that things are what you make them so I do not think a change in environment automatically makes things better. I am just curious about how much of an impact on my life overall can be made by the move. Virginia does have its pros but it is starting to lean left more and more everyday. Once you get into the southern and western regions it is far right and overly religious. In other words, supporters of volunteerism and anarchism are typically shunned. Being so close DC myself, it is a little rough.

With the right skills, jobs are plentiful here but the cost of living is absolutely insane. So ideally (like anybody) I am looking for rent rates that are reasonable. I have been checking craigslist to see and they are definitely lower  which is nice. I am just hoping the pay rates don't match that like they typically do. That being said, that is simply going to require some checking when I visit. Again, I am in school so saving a bit of cash would be nice.

Well said in regards about the FSP being about education. Though there are noble end goals, I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. This is something I want to be a part of as it would be nice to have some backing in this area. I try to talk to people around here and it rarely ends well. I know NH is the "Live Free or Die" state, but how is the opposition there? Are they more accepting, or at least willing to listen? I don't want to base everything off what I see on the internet but I have seen the Free Keene guys have some problems with others. Though this could be with their approach.

[politicalGRAFFITI]

I lived in Virginia.

The property taxes will be a bit of a shock, but that's because they don't have an income tax or sales tax.

You will enjoy much less traffic and the associated stress. Not as hot and the air quality will be much better. Really blue skies and typically less humidity than you are used to.

The culture is, as Maineshark said, a little colder than you are used to. But, many people are transplants and the stoic New Englanders can be quite friendly once the ice is broken.

You will have plenty of new friends if you want. Good luck in your search.

[JasonPSorens]

As you imply, the Free Keene approach has been counterproductive. Free Keene represents less than 2% of the people who've moved to NH as part of the FSP, however. Also, community antagonism toward the FSP is much lower outside Keene. People I talk to around here about it (Upper Valley) are curious and sometimes ask challenging questions, but they aren't hostile and don't seem to want to discriminate against me because of it, even though most of them disagree (this is a more lefty area, as noted above). Of course, elements on the left still want to make the FSP some kind of political issue (a recent LTE at the Concord Monitor comes to mind), but that's just the nature of politics. On the other side of the aisle, the FSP has been largely welcomed. (And a few Free Staters have won political success as Democrats - it's just harder.)

Like everywhere these days, politics can be pretty polarized, and it can be difficult to get everyone to treat you fairly. Like VA, NH is evenly divided between Dems and GOP, but the big difference is that there is a large, persuadable middle, which causes NH politics to swing between parties quite a bit. It's the sort of place where a third political force distinct from the two traditional poles can be very effective. (I don't mean "third party" - the prospects for that are as poor as everywhere - but a third ideological tendency that can make itself felt through the traditional parties.)

[freedomroad]

Money, pay? What is the Median Household Income for a family of four in your state? For New Hampshire, it is around $100,000.
https://www.facebook.com/FreeStateProject.org/posts/760352720674643

[Kipper]

Money, pay? What is the Median Household Income for a family of four in your state? For New Hampshire, it is around $100,000.
https://www.facebook.com/FreeStateProject.org/posts/760352720674643

In Northern Va it hovers around $115,000. Mostly government workers which drives property values through the roof. Fairfax County is home to the $800k town-home. Just hoping to get more bang for my buck when it comes to renting. Obviously this will depend of several factors but still trying to see what I will need to earn to afford a small studio.

I lived in Virginia.

The property taxes will be a bit of a shock, but that's because they don't have an income tax or sales tax.

You will enjoy much less traffic and the associated stress. Not as hot and the air quality will be much better. Really blue skies and typically less humidity than you are used to.

The culture is, as Maineshark said, a little colder than you are used to. But, many people are transplants and the stoic New Englanders can be quite friendly once the ice is broken.

You will have plenty of new friends if you want. Good luck in your search.

Yep was wondering about property taxes as they seem fairly high. As I am sure you are aware, the property tax on vehicles has been a sore spot for many Virginians as it was once promised to be abolished. This tax is always yanked from my tax refund as I refuse to pay it voluntarily. In regards to people, that is exactly what I would prefer. Everyone is in everybody's business here.

Again, thanks for the responses. Though my goal is to work overseas if I can, my desire to be around like minded people as well as deal with less stress while saving money is something I think I can achieve in NH. Oh course, being part of a cause I deeply care about is a driving factor. I might get to talk to be people who will not assume I am nuts when I mention I dislike all government.

[MaineShark]

Yep was wondering about property taxes as they seem fairly high.

They vary dramatically from town to town.

Each town sets a yearly budget, and then the rate for that town is determined to exactly meet the town's budget for that year.

Hence, the rate goes up and down each year as the budget changes, and also as home values change (if home values go up, the rate will go down - if the budget stayed the same, then the actual tax bill would stay the same, despite the change in values and rate).

An area with low property values may have a high rate, but the residents may see a lower tax bill than they would see in another town with a lower rate.

Mil rates can vary from the low $30's down to zero, depending upon the location in question.  So, the idea that New Hamphire has high property taxes is somewhat misleading; the average is certainly high, but if you do research ahead of time and choose a town with a low rate and low property valuations, you could actually pay much less than you currently pay.

[John Edward Mercier]

We don't change much. And NH has a property tax on vehicles that is paid to each municipality.

[freedomroad]

We don't change much. And NH has a property tax on vehicles that is paid to each municipality.

You may call it that if you want. It isn't the technical term.

What does it cost sales tax wise to buy a car in NH? Nothing.
What is the registration fee on a small 10 year old car in NH? Around $100 a year.
What is automobile insurance in NH? Nothing. Well, you can get it if you want. Some people even pay $300 a year for good coverage.

NH is perhaps the least expensive state to own a car in the nation.

[John Edward Mercier]

Yes. Technically the portion of your registration that goes to the municipality is a property tax.
Some even deduct it on their federal return.

[Kipper]

I can definitely see how the property tax levels fluctuate. Though it does seem the further north you go the cheaper it gets. I have to say the northern areas tend to be much more appealing to me. That being said, as stated I guess those in the north tend to be a bit more on the left. Honestly I could care less as long as they do not try and tell me what I can do on my property. I tend to get the impression though that being more lefty in NH is completely different than being on the left in New York or even Northern Va where I am from.

[anon37268573]

I can definitely see how the property tax levels fluctuate. Though it does seem the further north you go the cheaper it gets. I have to say the northern areas tend to be much more appealing to me. That being said, as stated I guess those in the north tend to be a bit more on the left. Honestly I could care less as long as they do not try and tell me what I can do on my property. I tend to get the impression though that being more lefty in NH is completely different than being on the left in New York or even Northern Va where I am from.

Don't get too hung up on the property taxes. The town I live in has a super high tax rate but the home valuations are low. The next town over has a more reasonable (low) tax rate but the home valuations are high. So, I end up pay about the same taxes as someone the next town over with an equivalent house. The thing is that most of the property tax money goes to schools. And, educating a kid in NH costs between $9,000-$12,000 a year. NH towns tend to have around the same number of school requirements/kids as per density (until you get into the rural areas). So, the education expenses as a burden per home owner are generally around the same. Hence, home prices and tax rates move in an almost supply and demand curve like way to pay to educate the little leeches.

There's not really anything anyone can do about it except give pregnant women the stink eye because NH voters will pretty much ok anything "for the children" and even child free people will vote for "good public schools" because they think their home values will crash if the school district ratings go down too much.

[Kipper]

Well just wanted to say thanks again to those who replied to this. My timeline has been adjusted but I will be spending about 2 weeks in NH come the end of February. Not nearly enough to view everything obviously but I do plan to visit Manchester to start with. I figure jobs might be easier to find there and I can get a good feel for the area. I would like to spend some time in the northern part of the state but that will depend on what I find in Manchester.