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Author Topic: Is the FSP a failure?  (Read 5573 times)

Argentum

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Is the FSP a failure?
« on: June 03, 2014, 06:19:37 pm »

This thread is in no way meant to denigrate all of those early movers who have worked their tail off, won some solid victories, or converted people to libertarianism.

I don't know what yardsticks are being used by FSP "members" to gauge success.  But whatever they are, can the FSP be considered a success, a work in progress or a failure.  The only thing I think I know is that the target date for a requisite number of signatories was moved.  As of now there are about 1600 participants in NH and about 3/4's of the 20,000 as overall participants.  Is this the type of thing that will be judged if, and when, the 20000 number is reached.

I was an early sympathizer but was and still am unable to make the move.
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Planethosting

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 07:02:28 pm »

This thread is in no way meant to denigrate all of those early movers who have worked their tail off, won some solid victories, or converted people to libertarianism.

I don't know what yardsticks are being used by FSP "members" to gauge success.  But whatever they are, can the FSP be considered a success, a work in progress or a failure.  The only thing I think I know is that the target date for a requisite number of signatories was moved.  As of now there are about 1600 participants in NH and about 3/4's of the 20,000 as overall participants.  Is this the type of thing that will be judged if, and when, the 20000 number is reached.

I was an early sympathizer but was and still am unable to make the move.

I believe many people are not mobile, they have divorces so they share kid visitations with their local ex-spouse, child support, a job, mounting bills and debt, a house they can't sell...in other words, they're living the 'American Hell'.
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elkingrey

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 08:15:22 pm »

This thread is in no way meant to denigrate all of those early movers who have worked their tail off, won some solid victories, or converted people to libertarianism.

I don't know what yardsticks are being used by FSP "members" to gauge success.  But whatever they are, can the FSP be considered a success, a work in progress or a failure.  The only thing I think I know is that the target date for a requisite number of signatories was moved.  As of now there are about 1600 participants in NH and about 3/4's of the 20,000 as overall participants.  Is this the type of thing that will be judged if, and when, the 20000 number is reached.

I was an early sympathizer but was and still am unable to make the move.

I believe many people are not mobile, they have divorces so they share kid visitations with their local ex-spouse, child support, a job, mounting bills and debt, a house they can't sell...in other words, they're living the 'American Hell'.

Well said.

"Success" and "failure" are subjective terms. I moved to New Hampshire from California and my life has greatly improved as a result. I'd say it's a success.

freedomroad

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2014, 08:18:57 pm »

This thread is in no way meant to denigrate all of those early movers who have worked their tail off, won some solid victories, or converted people to libertarianism.

I don't know what yardsticks are being used by FSP "members" to gauge success.
I'm glad you used quotes because the FSP doesn't have members ;)

Quote
  But whatever they are, can the FSP be considered a success, a work in progress or a failure.  The only thing I think I know is that the target date for a requisite number of signatories was moved.  As of now there are about 1600 participants in NH and about 3/4's of the 20,000 as overall participants.  Is this the type of thing that will be judged if, and when, the 20000 number is reached.
The goal is to reach 20,000 signers. Right now, the FSP is a work in progress, so to speak. Once 20,000 signers is reached, it will be a success, in my book. Other people might have different criteria, though.
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KBCraig

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2014, 08:42:57 pm »

I appreciate that you said you couldn't/wouldn't move, because often when this question comes up (several times a year), it's by someone who wants to move, and is disappointed that the 1,500+ of us who have already moved have not yet created some libertopia just waiting for them to move in and get a fresh start from whatever mess they're desperate to escape. And usually with no money or means, at that!
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winterboarder

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2014, 08:45:41 pm »

I'm one of the 16000 that signed the pledge, single, finished school and yet I have trouble moving in a responsible way. In my field not one NH studio bothered to answer my job application. In NYC I just had an interview with one of the biggest advertising companies in the world today. If I get the job I will be delayed a year or two. I cannot imagine how hard is for other people with spouses, children, houses, jobs, etc. The financial squeeze we are experiencing makes it a lot harder to just pick up and move. I'd move tomorrow if I could get a job in NH. Otherwise it will have to wait until I can get enough dough to live at least 6 months unemployed or start my own business. God usually laughs at my plans.
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lildog

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2014, 08:27:37 am »

"Success" and "failure" are subjective terms. I moved to New Hampshire from California and my life has greatly improved as a result. I'd say it's a success.

My thoughts exactly.  To claim success or failure everyone would have to agree on the same criteria to judge.

Using the basic test of how many people signed the pledge and how many actually moved compared to the original goal of the project it would be considered a failure.  That said, the end goal of the project is to increase freedom and liberty on a smaller scale (state level).  Measuring that, the project is a huge success.  Several of the free staters who have moved here have become state reps or moved into other elected positions.  By doing so they've shifted conversations from what can the government do for you, to who's doing the most to preserve your freedoms (granted many of the politicians are still lying but at least they are lying in a more positive direction).  Several bad bills have been stopped that otherwise would most likely have passed without anyone even knowing about them.  And some of what is happening here in NH has been copied by other states looking to capitalize on the freedom movement.
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Iron Sun 254

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2014, 01:27:28 pm »

I think the best sign of success is the fact that there are people out there actively campaigning against the movement.

This is a long game so don't let short term issues discourage you.
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Cisco34

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2014, 01:38:06 pm »

My old roommate and I were two of the original thousand or more that voted for the initial state.  New Hampshire was #1, Wyoming #2, I think Idaho #3.

New Hampshire became a great choice and looking at it now over 10 years later it looks like a success to me.  I've done different things in my life and my family may be ready for a move next year to the East Coast.  However, it would be totally dependent on finding a Cisco Network Engineer gig.

But I would call it a success, it's still going.

New Hampshire has a lot going for it.  I also like that it's close to Montreal, a City I want to visit.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2014, 11:00:49 pm »

I'm one of the first 40 movers.  Although the original goals are not being met, I don't believe that the state isn't moving in a proliberty direction.  The political insiders are responding pretty much as you'd expect, wheeling out the tired old ridicule tactic.  The bad politicians and nanny staters are getting outed and forced to resign.  We're getting more good people into state and local office, forcing issues to be publicly debated that would otherwise be ignored.
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Der Chipster

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2014, 03:36:06 pm »

Speaking for myself, I think that so far it has been a success.  That's part of the reason why I'm attracted to it.  Let's just look at a couple of stats.  According to the website there are 1614 Free staters in NH.  Of that, I believe 12 are already in the state legislature.  That's roughly one in 135. And that doesn't count those who hold other office.  That is an incredible number.  I would challenge you to find a political party anywhere in the states that has one in 135 or better of its participants elected.

Ok.  So let's say that the move is triggered and a total of 10,000 people move as a result.  Optimistic, but possible.  Keep in mind success breeds success.  If the current ratio holds, that would mean 74 more free staters in the house, and probably at least a few in the senate.  As a practical matter, that number of like minded individuals would essentially have veto power over most legislation and probably dominate the legislative agenda.  More so, 10,000 like minded individuals would soon come to have a very significant impact on the local culture.  

Personally, I think that Dr. Soren's discovered the secret sauce.  
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lildog

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Re: Is the FSP a failure?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2014, 07:27:31 am »

Speaking for myself, I think that so far it has been a success.  That's part of the reason why I'm attracted to it.  Let's just look at a couple of stats.  According to the website there are 1614 Free staters in NH.  Of that, I believe 12 are already in the state legislature.  That's roughly one in 135. And that doesn't count those who hold other office.  That is an incredible number.  I would challenge you to find a political party anywhere in the states that has one in 135 or better of its participants elected.

Ok.  So let's say that the move is triggered and a total of 10,000 people move as a result.  Optimistic, but possible.  Keep in mind success breeds success.  If the current ratio holds, that would mean 74 more free staters in the house, and probably at least a few in the senate.  As a practical matter, that number of like minded individuals would essentially have veto power over most legislation and probably dominate the legislative agenda.  More so, 10,000 like minded individuals would soon come to have a very significant impact on the local culture.  

That number doesn't include people who already lived here in NH prior to the free state project's start (myself included) who have welcomed them with open arms and have worked with them.
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