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Author Topic: Are we really ready for this?  (Read 12012 times)

Joey

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Are we really ready for this?
« on: August 20, 2002, 10:20:31 pm »


Of some of the interviews I've done with people and the information about FSP I have given to people, one big, BIG question that always comes up is this:

Are these guys READY for what is in store for them?

Seriously, think about it. A massive group of peaceful, freedom-loving people moving to a state at once, hoping to turn stuff around.

Anyone remember Waco in 1993?

What about Ruby Ridge?

You know the federal government would try to put a "spy" in the FSP or whatever - I know and you all should know that the government would try to do SOMETHING to halt this mass gathering of patriots.

I'm curious myself. Are all of you willing and ready just in CASE something does happen?

I'm not a violent person, but I sure as heck don't want to be shot or whatever just because I believe in real freedom.

I dunno, it's been on my mind for awhile. I'm curious to see what others have to say or think about it.
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percy, aka tntsmum

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2002, 05:48:37 am »


Quote
author=Joey
Anyone remember Waco in 1993?


To not consider this aspect is to be unrealistic and ignore history, IMO.

I've hit on this problem a couple times so far, since it was a pretty obvious one, as well as suggesting a possible solution. Still haven't seen any actual feedback on the subject though. Prolly should have started a fresh thread on this, as I unfortunately posted it in the middle of a political debate.  :)

Heres the post from that thread:

Quote
author=MouseBorg
IMO, properly done publicity is a must, simply for our own well being.

Those having read the (anti) Patriot Act have some idea just what a fine line we could end up walking unless it is publically established beyond any reasonable doubt that we are on a legit, law abiding basis.

Also toss in the aspect that the first most knew of the Ruby Ridge & Waco things was when the fit hit the shan... and was reported strictly from a biased viewpoint. They could well have been nut cases, but due to bad publicity, we'll never know.

Agreeing as well with not wishing to see the locals mobilize against us, we may need to strike a middle ground somehow.

IOW, I think I may possibly understand the problem, but I haven't the foggiest notion what the solution might be.  :)



This is why I think we really ought to look at getting as many members involved not only in publicity but in the media industry. Small local papers and TV stations are good places to start. Honesty about who we are and what we represent is key, if we are present and can have even a small role in how we are represented by the media it could help. Even though I'm just a lowly grunt at the paper the editor has run his editorials past me from time to time, and discussed current events with me to see what other opinions are out there and to judge the balance of his written position. Yould be surprised how much could be accomplished by  some sane representatives of FSP in the media outlets.
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Steve

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2002, 01:55:01 pm »

>Anyone remember Waco in 1993?

As I recall, that was a bunch o' wackos, not that it justifies their slaughter.  If we avoid wild, anti-social behavior, we will avoid their fate.  Yes, it is your right to be wild and anti-social, but that will not encourage your new neighbors to welcome you, and it will give certain authorities the fig leaf they need.  I don't suspect that this will be a problem, because all that we have in common is love of liberty.  Fine, we have one nudist, but unless an army of them goes marching down the road, it won't provoke an attack.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the short film "A Heap of Trouble" about "nine naked men go walking down the road..."
http://www.go-brooklyn.com/html/issues/24_29/bamcensor.html

Anyway, all you rebels out there try to tone down your talk of secession, guns, and more serious weapons.
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Joey

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2002, 12:48:33 am »


Yeah, the whole nuclear bomb thing was kind of freakin me out.

Hey, I'm all for the right to bear arms, but where is the line drawn when it comes to "weapons of mass destruction?"
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Elizabeth

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2002, 01:12:15 am »

Joey, you should probably ask that question in the Libertarian Politics or Libertarianism 101 sections.  Thread-jacking is a no-no.  ;)
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antayla

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2002, 06:30:49 pm »


Joey, you should probably ask that question in the Libertarian Politics or Libertarianism 101 sections.  Thread-jacking is a no-no.  ;)


As I recall, Joey started this thread :P
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Patriot69

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2002, 09:41:42 pm »

Ok. first point, whether or not someone is a "wacko" or not is irreleveant, Those people at Waco were murdered by a government who, according to the Constitution, is to "promote the general welfare" (Which is a problem in itself, but I digress). Do you think that they would be STUPID enough to mess with 20,000 Freedom loving people? Personally, I don't care. If they want a fight, they would do better taking it to Canada, they'd be alot easier to overrun than us. I may be a peace-loving Libertarian, but I keep my guns oiled and loaded....

If the Founders worried about what the King thought, we'd all be British subjects right now.
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Halo

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2002, 11:57:01 pm »

You all do of course realize that the FBI is reading all our posts and profiling each of us. When they determine that we are not just a bunch of freedom loving nuts expressing our desire for freedom in the virtual world of the internet, and that we might just carry out the plan, they'll come knocking. Well, maybe they won't knock. You think I'm joking? I was on another forum, (Corvettes) and one guy made some rather overt remarks, although not threatening, towards another member and he was paid a vistit by the police.

And in case you haven't noticed the Patriot Act has put another nail in the coffin of the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments. All the Feds have to do is determine that you are a terrorist threat, and they throw you in jail without charging you with a crime - claiming you no longer have rights guaranteed by the Constitution, we are against the government.

They don't need to mess with 20,000 Freedom loving people - maybe just 20 or 30.
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Elizabeth

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2002, 12:33:07 am »

Except that the only people foolish and/or outright stupid enough to make overt statements about armaments and violence aren't the people integral to this project.  

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?  If you sit in your house obsessing about government retaliation and then broadcast your insanity over the net, don't be surprised if your worst fears come true.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 06:02:46 am by Elizabeth »
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di540

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2002, 01:06:54 am »

Quote
we are against the government.

In practice, they are not 'the' government since the system has broken down to the point where it suffers from multiple personality disorder, like 'good cop, bad cop', but has devolved into 'good psycopath, bad psycopath'. So you can choose to be for the 'good gov't', since part of it will have to pretend to be the least corrupt country in the world, to maintain political & financial credibility.
Quote

They don't need to mess with 20,000 Freedom loving people - maybe just 20 or 30.

That would work if those 20 or 30 were leaders. But FSP will work even w/out leaders, since most of the members are 'activists' rather than sheep. At least active enough to vote w/their feet. They'd have to go after everyone after you've moved. Perhaps another federally trained psychopath will explode a yellow truck (10x farther than where the 757 crashed at the Pentagon, w/10x less fuel, yet causing much more damage) and then blame the evil libertarians and throw you all into mothballed military bases, for violating the laws of physics.
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Reaper

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2002, 09:06:50 am »

If they do decide to come for me they'd better remember what they trained me in first.  :o
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Reaper
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Halo

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2002, 12:43:13 pm »


Except that the only people foolish and/or outright stupid enough to make overt statements about armaments and violence aren't the people integral to this project.  


Well, statements have been made on this forum, and they don't have to be integral to the project to cause harm to it. And what you say may seem innocent to you, but to our men in black... You may recall Alan Iverson was going to be charged with making "terroristic" statements when he went on his little rampage looking for his wife. Remember, all the reasons why you are participating in this free state project are reasons why the government will want to stop you.
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antayla

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2002, 05:31:41 pm »

There is no better trainer than poverty imho... a person can learn alot about tenacity, deprivation, and "making do."  Course, I'm talking about people, not sheeple :P

I'm a role playing gamer too, and that helps alot I think... if only to think up creative solutions to seemingly insurmountable problems.  Gawd bless gamers :)

I need to learn how to shoot better however.   For self defense, of course :)  
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Mega Joule

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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2002, 12:44:33 am »

Quote
Quote from: mAximo

That would work if those 20 or 30 were leaders. But FSP will work even w/out leaders, since most of the members are 'activists' rather than sheep. At least active enough to vote w/their feet. They'd have to go after everyone after you've moved.


I certainly have my doubts about how many activists we would have left if the feds rounded up 20 or 30 of our members and held them as enemies of the state.  

Meg
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Re:Are we really ready for this?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2002, 07:44:48 pm »

What's with all the violent comments? "I keep my gun oiled and ready" - like shooting one as they come for you will do anything to further liberty. All it will do it make a few more kids fatherless.

It seems this project has chosen america because, despite everything, it has a system that could promote "liberty" theoretically. It promotes this by the law (Constitution) and not by the sword (or oiled gun).

Your comments make a curious observer (like myself) wonder if you are the type of people who are really ready to do something of this magnitude correctly. Personally, I think I'll keep an eye on your interesting project but I seriously doubt I want to be directly associated with such a trigger happy bunch.  

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