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Author Topic: Hello all.  (Read 4688 times)

pigpot

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Hello all.
« on: February 05, 2014, 02:07:43 am »

I have come to post here due to the need of finding a site that matches my ideas of a free living society. It's been a well travelled road over the years and quite a few years too. I've got here due to posting on a couple of supposed free thinking forums that supposedly allowed debate and rationality that was encompassed by logic and found them both to be closed minded and essentially advocating the current status quo.

On the second of these forums I had grown into the idea propounded by Larken Rose and Josie "Outlaw". I submitted much in the way of rational and logical argument about voluntaryism and the logical definition of an anarchistic life. I was however met with resistance at almost every level by people who couldn't tear themselves away from their love affair with "their" "Nation State" and "their" still needed to be this or identified as that "Nation". It grew repetitive and I became the target of many, many ad hominem attacks as not one of the attackers could defend their position against my arguments. There are posters and moderators still there (who brought me back from suspension, which was lifted and I thank them for that)  that called for my return and it happened. However I continued to ask the same questions that could not be answered, similar to the questions Larken Rose asked Tom Willcutts (to which he, Tom Willcutts, could NOT answer) because there is no answer other than to agree with Larken on the ideas of governmental magic, theft that changes into taxation (depending upon who you are) and that of consent being voluntary etc.

Still as life moves on I think we as individuals also do and so does our thinking. I would like some from that site to also post here, as their insights into freedom are very well rounded but as time goes on, that of course will be their consensual choice. A voluntary choice. The ONLY choice.  ;D

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to posting here.

 ;)

Edited: If this is not the correct place for posting this can an administrator please move it to the section it should reside in. Thank you.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:45:23 am by pigpot »
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dalebert

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 11:20:49 pm »

There's some discussion like that over here.

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/

freedomroad

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 11:51:52 pm »

Welcome to the Forum!

I look forward to you joining us in New Hampshire.
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pigpot

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 12:33:37 am »

Thanks for your response. I've watched and read much about your Liberty on line and think it is very progressive. The ONLY real issue I have is that not wanting to move to New Hampshire. I mean who knows what the future holds but for now I am more than comfortable where I am. My question is this: Is it not a good idea for humanity to EXPORT what is happening in Keene across the entire world? To allow EVERYONE the ability to become self-sustaining sovereigns without the need or bother of  any interfering GOVERNMENT (regardless of the level of GOVERNMENT).
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Luck

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 10:31:08 am »

Indeed, civil disobedience to corruption is well worth exporting everywhere.

I myself am not opposed to the word "government", since the definition does not entail abuse. I'm opposed to authoritarianism, or abuse of power. People have the right to organize themselves for self-defense and that's what legitimate governments are free to do. Removing abuse of power from governments will have a better effect than ending "governments", because when people are denied the right to organize themselves for self-defense (called self-government) they will more likely be denied their human rights by anyone or any group that wants to do so.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 01:18:25 pm by Luck »
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JaqEboy

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 11:04:13 pm »

Respectfully disagreeing, Luck, civil disobedience is working "IN the system" and is completely counterproductive to freedom movement ends. Ben Stone says it well in the following article. This is basically what I've been saying privately for uh, decades. I try not to criticize movement activists publicly, though.

Here's Ben's conclusion:

Quote
Both of these definitions regard civil disobedience as a rejections of a specific law, but an endorsement of the existing system as a whole, because the activist not only expects, but accepts punishment as part of the demonstration. It is an anticipated part of activism inside the system. So, no matter the intention of the anarchist, an act of civil disobedience is an act of protest, but ultimately an act of submission to the authority of the government.

Civil disobedience is in the same category as voting, petitioning, lobbying, speaking at a town hall, writing letters to representatives, political donations, volunteering for a political campaign, jury nullification and others. Civil disobedience doesn’t fulfill the long term goal of the anarchist (libertarian).

and here's the article:
http://dailyanarchist.com/2013/09/21/beyond-civil-disobedience/

I hope Ben's doing well. I heard he had a stroke or something.

Indeed, civil disobedience to corruption is well worth exporting everywhere.
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Luck

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 08:23:35 am »

People do have the right to organize for self-defense and if they call that government I see nothing wrong with that. It's only if their govt starts abusing anyone that it becomes unrighteous. If people don't organize for self-defense they're much more vulnerable to abuse by outsiders.
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JaqEboy

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Re: Hello all.
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 01:21:12 pm »

Yep, Luck. Pretty much Libertarianism 101.

The idea in question that I was responding to is "does it make sense strategically to run head on into a freight train, because you don't think it's right that it's speeding at you at 70 mph."  ;D   I took it to the extreme case to make a point here, but Ben's article points out, contrary to what some people in the movement argue, that civ dis is just an attempt to improve the (oppressive) system, not create a better society when there are root issues at stake.

People do have the right to organize for self-defense and if they call that government I see nothing wrong with that. It's only if their govt starts abusing anyone that it becomes unrighteous. If people don't organize for self-defense they're much more vulnerable to abuse by outsiders.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:25:34 pm by JaqEboy »
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