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Author Topic: Military Members  (Read 12464 times)

lloydbob1

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2003, 07:04:50 am »


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As a Vietnam Era veteran, I understand that people have joined the military for years with the idea that they would protect our country and the willingness to do it.  Some have died while doing the neccessary training to carry out that protection. Most have died, not defending our country, but, in a foriegn land, for some whim of our government.
The REALITY is that we have not been attacked, without provocation, by another country since 1812!
We had no business fighting the Mexicans in the 1840's, The south in the 1860's, the Spanish in the 1890's, the Germans in 1917, the Germans, japeanese, italians in the 1940's, the North koreans in the 50's, and the North Vietnamese in the 60' and 70's. Add to this the hundreds of minor squabbles we have been involved in all over the world for more than 100 years.
These were all interventionist wars in which our young men were killed, not protecting us, but, dying at the whim of our government.
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I am interested in hearing you expand on your thought that the war of 1812 was not an interventionist war and that the United States was attacked without provocation. Clearly the Embargo Act of 1807 and the Nonintercourse Act of 1809 were just as damaging diplomatically to the U.S. official position of neutrality as were the events leading up to WW 1 and 2. It should also be noted that no U.S. territory had yet been invaded by the British prior to war being declared by Congress. The declaration was clearly preemptory.

It's hard not to be "interventionist" when sea lanes and the trade that they carry are affected by foreign powers. Obviously there are historical conflicts where this is not the case, but it holds true for the major ones.

You got me?
I admit, I am not clear on 1812, I thought it was started by British immpressment of American sailors. I was thinking in terms of a forien power actuall sending a military force into our country.
Actually, I think the interventionist activities on the part of the Feds. might have started when we went after those pirates in the Mediteranian(Spel?) whose name escapes me right now, which, I believe, preceded 1812.
Lloyd
I remembered, Barberry Coast.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2003, 07:08:37 am by lloydbob1 »
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arclight

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2003, 09:57:49 am »

Yep, either Jefferson or Madison had sent forces ( the Marines, actually) to interdict the Barbary pirates from capturing and holding American trading ships for ransom. The Americans attacked the fortress of the pirates (in modern day Libya) at Derna, outside of Tripoli. I don't remember the year that this happened, but I want to say 1803. So, I guess this was the first instance of the Americans history of defending its interests abroad. Correct me if I am wrong, though.
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LeopardPM

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2003, 10:39:01 am »

and look where we are after 200 years of that slippery slope...
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NuclearDruid

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2003, 11:45:59 am »

The Neutrality Act of 1794 formally codified a position of non-intervention on behalf of the U.S. It was a recognition of Wahington's admonishment to avoid entanglements in foreign affairs. It has been trampled on by the diplomats and their egos at the State Department of every Administration since. It's only brought out and used by politicians when it's convienient to their purposes (like when U.S. citizens leave to fight in the Arab world.)
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lloydbob1

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2003, 04:09:20 pm »

Yep, either Jefferson or Madison had sent forces ( the Marines, actually) to interdict the Barbary pirates from capturing and holding American trading ships for ransom. The Americans attacked the fortress of the pirates (in modern day Libya) at Derna, outside of Tripoli. I don't remember the year that this happened, but I want to say 1803. So, I guess this was the first instance of the Americans history of defending its interests abroad. Correct me if I am wrong, though.


Those American trading ships should have armed themselves and when possible, traveled in packs.
They should have done whatever was neccessary to protect themselves and added the costs to the consumers of their products. In the event they could not overcome the pirates, they should have ceased trade with the countries in that area untill THEY stopped the pirates.
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arclight

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Re:Military Members
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2003, 06:47:37 am »

Question,
Any of you military members dealt in any respect with the VA?
I have some particular questions if anyone would be so kind to lend a ear for a moment! :D
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