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Author Topic: ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced  (Read 14151 times)

Sardonicous

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2003, 05:14:59 pm »

Even though I favor WY If NH wins I will be investing in it.

It would appear that "buying in bulk" is the best way to buy land.(i e least dollar per square footage. I might be interested in hooking up with your group in NH wins.

However I hope WY wins because I see better "value" there.

Hell, maby I'll end up investing in both.
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Elwar

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2003, 11:57:57 am »

Was just wondering if this investment would be available to those
who are not FSP members as of yet.

Running for office next year, it would kinda make things a bit more
difficult if I was in a project where I'd be moving out of my state.

But I am interested in this project as an investment and who knows
what the future brings.

I've sent a request to the Yahoo forum but perhaps because I have
no member number I was not accepted.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2003, 12:06:26 pm »

As conceived, GGP is an FSP member-only project. Furthermore, in order to comply with SEC regs, all requests for membership must include the persons real name, and a mailing address/address of record. An online discussion is more than just a chat or face to face informal discussion. For evidentiary purposes, they are official records of pre-incorporation planning and as such all parties involved must be clearly identified or identifiable. Oh, and parties must be of age.
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Elwar

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2003, 03:08:28 pm »

Completely understandable. Hopefully after next November I'll be a member
and can invest or else I'll be a state senator. Either way I'll be contributing
to a freer future.
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Top Dollar

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2003, 05:07:26 pm »

It seems like it would be wise to accept capital from any friendly source.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2003, 05:24:08 pm »

The whole point of the GGP is to dissolve the corporation at some point, delivering a return on investment and surplus land to the stockholders. Why do we want to do this? To make land inexpensive for FSP members, who would be investors. Doing this would make the cost of migration much smaller than compared to doing so without the GGP.

If the GGP were open to anybody, the the whole purpose would be defeated.
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Delaware2

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2003, 06:41:22 pm »

Very Intriguing.  Very Big.  Like everyone else, I want to know more.  How much of the land is in Maine and how much in New Hampshire?  I've got to locate this on the map to see if it is close to anything.  

Unfortunately I can not join the Yahoogroups, so I will continue to glean my info from this FSP site.

Checking on MeadWestvacos last sale, it looks like Mike has a good estimate of the likely going price of $50Mil.

http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2002/12/09/daily38.html
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Delaware2

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2003, 08:09:05 pm »

O.K., I think I have a pretty good idea from the limited resolution the Encarta site affords.  It's in Coos County, the NH part of the land .  The county has a border with Canada.  Voulez-vous vendre vos produits auz Canadiens?

Major town would be Berlin, down Rte 16. (That's BER'-lin, not ber-LIN').   The rather large "Balsams" resort hotel could be a source of employment for some.  If you remember the movie "Hotel New Hampshire" from the late '80's and Jody Foster's hot bedroom scene with Rob Loew, that's the place.  

What else could one do for a living in that rugged wilderness?  Host/lease hunting, mountaineering, cross country skiing.
Harvest prime spruce trees for aircraft and sailboat spars.
Raise chickens and sell eggs.  Repair snowmobiles.  Give courses in orienteering, since lots of folks will be getting lost trying to find their plot of land.

One would have to get to work early building trails and roads, I guess.  Log cabins would be a natural choice, with the difficulty of transporting expensive building materials over no roads contrasted to the ready availability of trees.  
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DadELK68

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2003, 08:41:14 pm »

Remember, one of the possibilities was that ownership of a parcel of this land doesn't mean you have to live on it - your primary residence might be Derry, Londonderry, New London, Newcastle, wherever, and you could have a vacation home, hunting cabin/camp, or simply just a plot of land in the North Woods to call your own.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2003, 01:43:28 pm »

All excellent points. Berlin's primary individual employers at the current time are the paper mills and the state prison, beyond this, tourism is big business and there are a number of auto dealers on the strip between Berlin and Gorham that advertise all over new england because they have cheap overhead and can offer low car prices.

There are a number of ski areas in the area: Attitash, The Balsams, Cannon Mt., Loon, Waterville Valley, Wildcat, as well as Sunday River and Sugarloaf over the border in Maine and several others over the border in Vermont. There are world class golf areas, tons of hiking trails, rock climbing galore.

The Androscoggin River and Lake Umbagog in the east and the Connecticutt Lakes in the west offer lots of water sports opportunities. There is whitewater rafting, kayaking, canoing, waterskiing, as well as fishing of all sorts.
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Delaware2

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2003, 05:07:27 pm »

The idea of incorporating for the purpose of ending the corporation and dividing the land among member-investors is a good one.

Two problems:  Initial investors, large and small, will want to see the articles of incorporation include bailout clauses protecting their cash in the event the purchase dollar amount is not met.

Then the division of the land will be an issue.  Some land parcels will be more desirable than others, so dividing along a fixed dollar-per-acre formula will leave some dissatisfied investors.  So the free market has to find a way within the corporation as well.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2003, 05:24:55 pm »

These are all excellent points.  I was expecting a type of Condorcet system, where each person can rank 1 through 'n' their preferred parcels. This is a common lottery system. It's how we apportion moose hunting permits here in NH: you rank your preferences of the 30 odd areas of the state when you submit your application. It may not make everyone equally happy, but it makes the most happiness for the most people.

Of course, since some people will invest more than others, it will have to be a bit more complex than this. One idea I have is to have three or four parcel sizes, and to allow individual to place both positive and negative weight to various parcels. A good explaination of this system is described in Neil Stephenson's novel "Cryptonomicon", in the chapter where Randy Waterhouse, the main character, is in eastern Washington state with his girlfriend, presiding over the dispersal of his grandmother's property to the various members of the family when she is put in a retirement home. His family is all mathematicians, so they came up with this system.

I'm gonna have to use my contacts to get in touch with Neil to find out the specific mathematics of figuring all this stuff out.
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Delaware2

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2003, 06:48:48 pm »

I'm thinking more of a bid system.  Once an investor has figured out the number of acres his investment would buy:

Acres = investment * ( 650,000 acres/ Purchase Price)

He will want his acreage in a certain spot or spots.  The most scenic spots, the sites closest to roads and towns, those on waterfronts, will be desired by others.  

Now the investors  bid for the desired parcel, by factoring down the number of acres they demand--the same as raising the price per acre for the desired spot.  High bidder wins, AND by taking a smaller parcel makes it more likely that another investor can have a similar site next door, or on the next mountaintop, or the next lake.

Those who insist on the best spots pay for them by accepting a proportionally smaller parcel for same money.  It's a free market because if someone wanted it more, he could have bid a higher price per acre.  Those who are content with less accessible parcels in the interior of the wilderness get the full value  of their dollar with larger tracts of land, on an acres per dollar basis.  Those who focus primarily on acres per dollar might want to bid on the least desirable land.  For example, a steep hillside might be something that is not valued because it is difficult to build on and unsuitable for fields or grazing.  It still has a value at a much lower price per acre.

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Mike Lorrey

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2003, 07:21:40 pm »

Sure, but if you just auction off every parcel, you either need to run auctions one at a time, or else you have a problem with people winning auctions and not having the cash to pay for them cause they won other auctions. The system I describe prevents this from occuring while still acting as an auction.
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Elwar

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Re:ATTN: Galt's Gulch Project Announced
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2003, 03:48:12 pm »

Just curious if this project is going ahead now that New Hampshire has been chosen.
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