Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)  (Read 4494 times)

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest

Note: Like a dumbass, I chose to use FireFox instead of Google Chrome. FF deletes searches and history automatically. I'm an idiot, yes. Why am I an idiot? Because I can't show you the article. Not that you'd want to read it.

So I'm on the internet looking for available land in New Hampshire. Something rural or semi-rural since I wanna be self-sufficient, but have access to ready entertainment such as an urban area. I find something that I think I could work with. Scroll down until I see something about the FSP. Click on it, and it turns out to be an article.

An article of "true plans" and the like, written by some not-so-friendly sorts. The jist was that after NH's big liberty move of 20,00 freemen, it would then be separated according to race. Some of the comments seemed highly in-favour of this, with one reading "I don't see (insert ethnic group here) as Americans. America was founded by (insert ethnic group here), for (insert ethnic group here)." I didn't use actual group terms because I'm not trying to troll or cause a problem here. I think that Libertarians have the right idea -- in fact, if I did use labels, I'd be one, or closest to one. "Don't tread" and all that. I don't really like to divide people -- especially something like this. Every freeman counts in the movement to achieve liberty in our lifetime. Doesn't matter what . . . erm, differentiating factors freemen have -- we're liberty-lovers. We all say "live free or die". So no -- I'm not trolling. As someone who's looking to help you guys out, I'm genuinely bothered by this! I just want to make my stance clear so that there isn't any confusion. If you love liberty, you love liberty. You're with the movement; you're with the movement. What you look like and things such as that -- well, they don't matter. All I know is, if I do make the move, EVERY freeman gets my respect. What's that? You say "live free or die"? Come on in!


TL;DR: I read that New Hampshire will turn into an ethnic dystopia after the big move happens. As someone interested in relocating to your state and fully supportive of the FSP, this worries me. Nothing to lose sleep over, or is there something to fear here?

EDIT: I should've put this in "Prospective Participants", in retrospect, since I'm definitely interested and will relocate if my questions are answered. Sorry folks. Won't happen again!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:09:51 pm by Ambitious Ant »
Logged

JasonPSorens

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5725
  • Neohantonum liberissimum erit.
    • My Homepage
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 09:07:25 pm »

That's crazy. We have people of all different races, ethnicities, and faiths, and kick people out who have a problem with that: https://freestateproject.org/about/faq.php
Logged
"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 10:14:41 pm »

That's crazy. We have people of all different races, ethnicities, and faiths, and kick people out who have a problem with that: https://freestateproject.org/about/faq.php
Twenty-eight reads and only one reply. Can't say I'm surprised. You're right though -- it is crazy. That's why I had to follow-up and make sure that the FSP was as advertised. Like I said, liberty for all. I'm with the whole "don't tread" thing -- rattlesnake and all that. I definitely DO NOT support the article I read. That's why I made this post.

So, you guys don't do the petty racist thing then? Final answer is "no"? Unity, freedom and that jazz for everyone?
Logged

Sam Adams

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 550
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 10:36:24 pm »

  Welcome A Ant. I don,t understand what you read, true plans, or where you found it. Why don,t you introduce yourself and let us know where your from and say hello. I,m Dan, from CT. Moving soon.  Welcome abroad, freedom is for everyone.
Logged

Jerry

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
  • Next 1000
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 10:44:50 pm »

That's crazy. We have people of all different races, ethnicities, and faiths, and kick people out who have a problem with that: https://freestateproject.org/about/faq.php
Twenty-eight reads and only one reply. Can't say I'm surprised. You're right though -- it is crazy. That's why I had to follow-up and make sure that the FSP was as advertised. Like I said, liberty for all. I'm with the whole "don't tread" thing -- rattlesnake and all that. I definitely DO NOT support the article I read. That's why I made this post.

So, you guys don't do the petty racist thing then? Final answer is "no"? Unity, freedom and that jazz for everyone?

Reread your first post with a critical eye.

Twenty-seven people read you deny being a troll twice, then hint that the FSP is controlled by a racist cabal, so of course they follow the Internet Rule:  DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
Logged

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 11:21:13 pm »

Reread your first post with a critical eye.

Twenty-seven people read you deny being a troll twice, then hint that the FSP is controlled by a racist cabal, so of course they follow the Internet Rule:  DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
Hey man, I'm not a troll. Don't be vapid. The fact that it was an article that explicitly mentioned NH and the FSP was alarming enough to stir some worry in me. Don't you think I'd have focused on the message of the article itself, rather than is validity? I didn't hint at anything, I only asked a question to make sure, kid.

If I were a troll, I wouldn't focus on my plans that relate to the FSP, I'd be fixated with the article itself and whether or not such a belief is healthy (clearly isn't).
Logged

Jerry

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
  • Next 1000
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 12:04:13 am »

Reread your first post with a critical eye.

Twenty-seven people read you deny being a troll twice, then hint that the FSP is controlled by a racist cabal, so of course they follow the Internet Rule:  DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
Hey man, I'm not a troll. Don't be vapid. The fact that it was an article that explicitly mentioned NH and the FSP was alarming enough to stir some worry in me. Don't you think I'd have focused on the message of the article itself, rather than is validity? I didn't hint at anything, I only asked a question to make sure, kid.

If I were a troll, I wouldn't focus on my plans that relate to the FSP, I'd be fixated with the article itself and whether or not such a belief is healthy (clearly isn't).

You got the correct answer in Jason's response:  "That's crazy"
The implications of the article you referred to are so far removed from reality that the other 27 folks deemed it unworthy to respond to.

Read the link in Jason's message.  You will learn that there is no chance of some racists deciding any such course of action.  There is no boss, leader or committee that makes decisions on what activism the participants engage in.

 "I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

How we do that is decided by each individual.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 12:22:30 am by Jerry »
Logged

Russell Kanning

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
    • We must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 09:55:28 am »

Come to the next liberty forum and decide for yourself.:-)
Watch out for those old guys with long beards like Jerry. They blend in perfectly with the other backwoods freemen in NH.:-)
Logged
The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 09:57:12 am »

You got the correct answer in Jason's response:  "That's crazy"
The implications of the article you referred to are so far removed from reality that the other 27 folks deemed it unworthy to respond to.

Read the link in Jason's message. You will learn that there is no chance of some racists deciding any such course of action.  There is no boss, leader or committee that makes decisions on what activism the participants engage in.

"I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

How we do that is decided by each individual.
I read it. I also read the "101 Reasons To Move" page as well. Both of them a handful of times. One of the things that attracted me to the movement/project was that they were all-accepting. No division -- if you love liberty you're good to go. I wasn't trying to troll; only get serious answers. Remember, I'm someone who plans to relocate. I already emailed a realtor who said we'll start working together once I'm within a year of moving, right now I'm about four, maybe four-plus years. My business partner wanted Texas, but after someone linked me to the FSP, I decided to switch gears instantly.

I won't keep rambling. All I'm saying is that, for someone who signed the letter of intent/promise to move, this sudden article talking about something so fucked was alarming. I wouldn't have posted it if the article didn't mention NH and the FSP explicitly. I agree with Jason -- it is crazy. And that's why I wanted to make damn sure I wasn't stepping into some doo-doo here.

Come to the next liberty forum and decide for yourself.:-)
Watch out for those old guys with long beards like Jerry. They blend in perfectly with the other backwoods freemen in NH. :-)
Come to the next Liberty Forum and see for myself? Why do I get a bad vibe from your post?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:59:00 am by Ambitious Ant »
Logged

Russell Kanning

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
    • We must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 10:00:45 am »

You seemed worried by an article. If you go to the next LF you will be excited.:-)
Logged
The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

time4liberty

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 922
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 10:30:31 am »

Racism is not acceptable -- that and avocation of violence are two of the very few ideas that officially disqualify a person from being a participant.

The truth is, NH isn't nearly as ethnically diverse as I'd like it to be -- though it seems to be getting better over the years, especially in the southern parts of the state, where I am.

I tend to think the best of people, so I won't assume you're a troll. The fact that you'd put any stock in that kind of insane article does show me that you must not know any FSPers, and certainly haven't visited. Visit Porcfest perhaps :).
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 10:34:53 am by time4liberty »
Logged

lildog

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 10:58:03 am »

The fact that it was an article that explicitly mentioned NH and the FSP was alarming enough to stir some worry in me.

BlueHampshire.com has at least 1 article a week trashing free staters or the free state project.  Most of them are littered with half cocked opinions that have nothing factual to base them on or spout out right lies.

There are people who fear the free state project and others who's ideals are complete opposite of what the free state is about.  They will stop at nothing to slander or attack in an effort to scare people off.

They have also baited on forums like these with new accounts in an effort to get some quote they can then take out of context in their newest articles to attack further.  Considering the fact that until this thread you account didn't exist and considering the history of the Democrats using those tactics, it's not hard to guess why people would choose to ignore you instead of respond.  How's it go... everything you say can and will be used against you.
Logged

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 11:13:18 am »

You seemed worried by an article. If you go to the next LF you will be excited. :-)
You smile a lot. I would very much like to attend, I think, but I have no cash to fly there with. I am worried about an article. That kind of cancerous mindset seems to be growing in popularity. Even in indigenously-ethnic nations like South Africa. Of course I'm going to flip out a little. Give me some rope here, Russell.


Racism is not acceptable -- that and avocation of violence are two of the very few ideas that officially disqualify a person from being a participant.

The truth is, NH isn't nearly as ethnically diverse as I'd like it to be -- though it seems to be getting better over the years, especially in the southern parts of the state, where I am.

I tend to think the best of people, so I won't assume you're a troll. The fact that you'd put any stock in that kind of insane article does show me that you must not know any FSPers, and certainly haven't visited. Visit Porcfest perhaps. :)

Phew. Now I can wipe my forehead in relief. I kind of gathered that, overall, the Libertarian community only concerned themselves with the colours red, white and blue. Or yellow, in the case of the Gasdsen flag. Or blue, in the case of the Moultrie/Liberty flag. You're right to think I'm not a troll -- far from it. Also far from a racist. I put part of your post in bold because I want to see diversity where I live. So even if you could say that I do see race, it's because I like seeing different features. I'll sound like a softy, but I'm anonymous so it's okay; I think that the distinct features of each ethnic group are beautiful. I really do. Hey -- I've been attracted to and dated many ethnic groups. I'm not against mixing or anything because I think it should be about the individual. They can't help what ethnic group they were born into, and even if they could, there's still nothing wrong with it. I've always appreciate differences in people -- subtle or otherwise. So I agree with the part in bold 100%. I want everyone to join the FSP. Make it into a rainbow.

Anyone who does believe in that shit should stay far away from not only New Hampshire, but the Libertarian community as a whole. It's bad enough you guys are tainted by the gun-grabbers as murderous nut-jobs with a hard-on for spilling blood. That's why I freaked out -- because an article such as that could further taint the party.

In any case, I don't know any FSPers, and have definitely NOT visited. You know, I would visit Porcfest or Liberty Forum, but I lack the money to travel.

I'm glad we could clear that up. I didn't mean to stir up trouble; only to make sure nothing was already being stirred. I look forward to helping the movement out and bringing liberty to NH (well, MORE liberty).

BlueHampshire.com has at least 1 article a week trashing free staters or the free state project.  Most of them are littered with half cocked opinions that have nothing factual to base them on or spout out right lies.

There are people who fear the free state project and others who's ideals are complete opposite of what the free state is about. They will stop at nothing to slander or attack in an effort to scare people off.

They have also baited on forums like these with new accounts in an effort to get some quote they can then take out of context in their newest articles to attack further.  Considering the fact that until this thread you account didn't exist and considering the history of the Democrats using those tactics, it's not hard to guess why people would choose to ignore you instead of respond.  How's it go... everything you say can and will be used against you.
Believe me mate, I don't blame you for thinking of me as a troll at first, I'm saying that anyone who read my post should've gotten a vibe that I was nothing of the sort. I believe in the FSP and what you all are doing, or I wouldn't have warned you about the article in the first place.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 11:16:40 am by Ambitious Ant »
Logged

KBCraig

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1466
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 05:41:23 pm »

Twenty-eight reads and only one reply.
Welcome to the internet, where most "readers" are search bots.

I couldn't figure out if you were asking a question or making a statement, or what either might have been. The implication that the FSP is racist in any way is so exactly the opposite of the truth as to be nonsensical and not worth a response.
Logged

Ambitious Ant

  • Guest
Re: Concern About Liberty Division, (Too Long; Didn't Read at Bottom)
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 07:21:50 pm »

Twenty-eight reads and only one reply.
Welcome to the internet, where most "readers" are search bots.

I couldn't figure out if you were asking a question or making a statement, or what either might have been. The implication that the FSP is racist in any way is so exactly the opposite of the truth as to be nonsensical and not worth a response.[/quote]
Asking a question. No need to be two-ways about it. For Libertarians, you lot sure don't seem open to letting people make their concerns known.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up