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Author Topic: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.  (Read 5122 times)

tortuga

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Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« on: January 07, 2013, 10:08:36 am »

I read on the mainsite, I think, that most people heat with oil. In NJ, at leas my area, we use natgas. Heating is less of an issue to me than stoves. In general, I like fire stoves, but after Sandy, I see how valuable they are. Our neighbors had an electric top and couldnt even boil water. We had all sorts of everything. It was some hell of a consolation in the eight or so does without power.

So, how are stoves in NH? Are they mostly electric? Is anywhere served by gas? I imagine one could have a propane cooktop that you need to buy propane for. That would be fine for me I think, but his is very important. Also, how often do blackouts occur during general periods? Summer? Winter?

Thanks :)
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 10:27:13 am »

Depends on the area and the weather.
Some areas have natural gas (mostly municipal)... but propane is also in use.


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JonM

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 10:32:53 am »

I live in the north section of my town, about 1 mile or so from the nearest natural gas line.  You can certainly make that a factor of your property search.  Were I able to get natural gas, I likely would switch over and get a natural gas generator for when power goes out, because power does go out.
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KBCraig

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 07:13:06 pm »

Piped natural gas is available in some places, but not most of the state. The nickname is well earned, you know.

Almost everywhere you can get LPG, colloquially called "bottle gas". Scheduled delivery is the same as getting oil.
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Dooner987

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 12:57:48 pm »

You can boil water on electric stove. Do it all the time. Natural gas is an option depending on where you live. Not available yet where I live. Propane (asspensive) is readily available anywhere. Oil is for heat or hot water, though not too many oil fired water heaters. Oil too is expensive. I heat with wood primarily (two wood stoves one in basement one in living room), a pellet stove, and oil fired boiler as backup, and hot water. I also have an electric water heater for when I let oil run out. I can do that with variety of heat sources in this house. Good to have a "portfolio" of heat sources here in NH.

Yes, I think the majority heat with oil. Many are switching to nat gas in bigger cities. Cleaner, easier to maintain (though probably more expensive when things do break), and quieter than oil fired boilers /burners. Concord has a steam plant from what I understand and is piped throughout the city. I don't know if it serves residential/ commercial or just serves municipal buildings.

Solar is an option but short winter days may prove ineffective. Some here have geothermal. I know of one house that has it and like it. I've no experience with it.
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MaineShark

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 02:04:37 pm »

You can boil water on electric stove. Do it all the time.

I believe tortuga was referring to not being able to boil water on the electric stove because the electricity was out, whereas some gas stoves still work (many newer stoves have a lovely "safety" device that prevents them from operating if there's no electricity, so watch out).
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tortuga

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 11:09:08 pm »

You can boil water on electric stove. Do it all the time. Natural gas is an option depending on where you live. Not available yet where I live. Propane (asspensive) is readily available anywhere. Oil is for heat or hot water, though not too many oil fired water heaters. Oil too is expensive. I heat with wood primarily (two wood stoves one in basement one in living room), a pellet stove, and oil fired boiler as backup, and hot water. I also have an electric water heater for when I let oil run out. I can do that with variety of heat sources in this house. Good to have a "portfolio" of heat sources here in NH.
I know you can, but I need something that is poweroutage proof. This is probably the most important thing in deciding where to live. It made a huge difference during Sandy to be able to heat soup and make tea. Our neighbors couldnt!
Thanks for the idea of wood stoves. I didnt even think of that. Ill have to look into that when I go from apartment to house.

You can boil water on electric stove. Do it all the time.

I believe tortuga was referring to not being able to boil water on the electric stove because the electricity was out, whereas some gas stoves still work (many newer stoves have a lovely "safety" device that prevents them from operating if there's no electricity, so watch out).
I dont think its just safety. Some of them just have electric ignition, or perhaps they all do now. The one in my old apartment I believe was electric, while in my moms house is pure mechanical-gas. You can tell its electric I think by the click click click as it tries to ignite.

This all really is a dealmaker/breaker for me after living thru that and if theres a good chance of even one day outage a year, this is an absolute necessity to have some sort of working stove. I mean I could always keep a camping stove around, but those eat up fuel.
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freedomroad

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 11:20:43 pm »

This doesn't seem like a big deal to me, especially if you live in a city in southeastern NH. The power doesn't go out frequently and it usually doesn't last long. Usually, if the power is out where you are, that doesn't mean the gas or wood heater is out. If you have electric heat, it might be an issue but you can just stay with a friend, most likely. Plus, if there was a real need, shelters would open and liberty folks would open their homes to other liberty folks. If you are addicted to caffeine and need a jump start in the morning, pills and the cheapest way to get it. Otherwise, energy drinks are only 75cents and soda is even cheaper.

If it is food you want, consider having some veggies, fruits, nuts, bread and oils around the house. The stuff doesn't need to be kept cold or heated. You just eat it. Heck, it is cold out, all of your frozen and refrigerated stuff will keep fine. I lived without power (though the store and pack-up heater worked) for a week. It really wasn't the big a deal. It was like a was camping, though a little more luxurious.

You can always buy or make a solar heater on the cheap. And as you said, there are camping supplies. Plus, you could, in many situations, just go to a store or restaurant to get prepared food and warm drinks.
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MaineShark

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 09:20:42 am »

I dont think its just safety. Some of them just have electric ignition, or perhaps they all do now. The one in my old apartment I believe was electric, while in my moms house is pure mechanical-gas. You can tell its electric I think by the click click click as it tries to ignite.

Even if it uses electronic ignition, that doesn't mean you cannot use a match or lighter to light it.

In the ones where you can't, it's because there's a spring-loaded valve that shuts off the gas supply, unless there is power to run an electromagnet that holds it open.  It's added solely for the purpose of shutting the appliance down when there's no power.

The theory is that, in newer homes with extremely tight construction, power is necessary to operate air exchange fans, so if the power is off, you shouldn't run gas stoves.  For the majority of folks who don't live in super-tight houses, that's not a problem, but most manufacturers choose to avoid liability by putting such devices in their stoves.  Annoying customers is cheaper than paying a settlement because some fool ran a stove in a sealed-up house and killed his whole family.
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Dooner987

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 05:42:23 pm »

As far as gas appliances go if there's a standing pilot it should work during a power outage. Most stove tops will work, but the oven won't. Those most use an electric ignitor to light. The Green Initiative is trying to do away with all standing pilots. Yes there would be substantial savings if you consider the many appliances out there that utilize a standing pilot. Burning gas all day long just standing ready waiting to ignite on need. Put electric ignition in and no more pilot burning away needlessly. No standing pilot means no fire in the event of power outage. Earlier post says to use a match in that case. I'm sure it would work if gas were coming out. Many have built in safeties to prevent gas flow in the event of power outage.

You can heat water on a wood stove, though maybe not to boiling. Most cook top stoves (electric) get red hot to boil water. Certainly hot enough to make coffee or tea. We survived 4 or 5 days without electricity with ours, and had instant coffee. Many appliances can also be powered via battery back up. Pellet stoves can fire for a while on car batteries with power inverters. Power outages in my area are rare. Seacoast area of NH. But do happen. Usually for an hour or two at most. Frequently those are only for a few minutes. Very rare are the freak storms that knock power out for days. Only happened twice that I remember where it was out for days in my area.

Power outage proof... I'd say wood stove. Only sure thing. You can also cook with a small camp stove. Not supposed to use indoors for safety reasons, but most of the small one or two burner ones run on a small propane camping or lantern size tank, and have flames comparable to those of regular kitchen cook stoves. Those stoves are often run without a hood to ventilate. There are also vent free gas log sets for "ambiance" that are, as the name says, vent-less. Those burn in a room, without a chimney. The exhaust off those is small enough to not pose a real danger.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 01:28:11 am »

Green Initiative? You mean it has nothing to do with the fact that when a pilot is out, the gas would continue to fill the room?
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Dooner987

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 08:08:26 am »

Typically the standing pilot heats up a thermocouple or thermopile. That once heated creates millivolts of electricity. That electricity holds the gas valve open and pilot stays lit. A gas top cook stove could still spew gas if turned on without a pilot but a gas fired water heater, for instance if operating correctly, will not spew gas in the event the pilot is out.
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MaineShark

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 09:41:54 am »

Green Initiative? You mean it has nothing to do with the fact that when a pilot is out, the gas would continue to fill the room?

No, there's a safety device on any modern-production gas appliance, as Dooner noted.  That includes stoves.  If the pilot goes out, the valve shuts off the gas.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 10:33:21 am »

So getting rid of the pilot light is a green initiative (regulation)? Or a market initiative?
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MaineShark

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Re: Gas, oil, heat, stoves, electricity.
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 10:37:48 am »

So getting rid of the pilot light is a green initiative (regulation)? Or a market initiative?

It's regulatory, by the DOE.  The market wants pilot lights.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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