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Author Topic: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?  (Read 12351 times)

kenlee101st

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2012, 08:44:30 am »

Some people in the United States worry about predator drones flying over the cities, I'm going to be worried about pilot-less predator drones.  Pretty much nations are going to resist going down the robotic army route, but it is an arms race.  Sooner or later someone is going to start employing them, and mothers and fathers in the nation are questioning why their son and daughters are going to be sent into a meat grinder.  Most of you are non-aggression people, I just pay attention to military tech and see this is the route we are going.  The CIA spy drone over Iran failed and landed in that country, and they are reverse engineering it now.

You can say Americans committed genocide in Iraq but my experiences lead me to a far different conclusion.  I have a hard time putting into words what I think freedom is because to be honest I really don't know after seeing the suffering there.  It is a hard thing to put into words or even say, but looking at those people not sure how much freedom of speech or religion, or any other thing we take for granted meant to them but I knew tranquility and serenity would be priceless.  All the BoR wouldn't matter without security.
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MaineShark

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2012, 09:18:53 am »

Most of you are non-aggression people, I just pay attention to military tech and see this is the route we are going.

"Non-aggression" means you don't start fights.  It doesn't mean that you don't end them.  Promptly and efficiently.

You can say Americans committed genocide in Iraq but my experiences lead me to a far different conclusion.  I have a hard time putting into words what I think freedom is because to be honest I really don't know after seeing the suffering there.  It is a hard thing to put into words or even say, but looking at those people not sure how much freedom of speech or religion, or any other thing we take for granted meant to them but I knew tranquility and serenity would be priceless.

How much of their oppression was due to the genocidal actions of the US government?  How much did it strengthen Saddam's government, to have the US be providing him with "the Great Satan" to focus his subjects' hate upon, rather than having them question his power?  If some outside imperial power is starving your child to death, you don't tend to worry about the local government much, so it can get away with pretty much anything.  Not only was the Federal government guilty of the direct starvation of those children, but it was also complicit in keeping Saddam in power.

All the BoR wouldn't matter without security.

Since the BoR is designed to itemize restrictions upon the government in its dealings with the people, it's kind of pointless to have the government be providing that "security" - you don't ask the fox to guard the henhouse.  If the government is to be restricted, then the people need to always be the stronger party.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

crossonscout

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2012, 04:17:54 pm »

A gun is a tool.  A plane is a tool, as well.  Who holds that tool and how they use it, is what's important.  The Federal government's atrocities do not make planes, tanks, guns, or whatever evil, but it does make the Federal government evil.

AMEN to this! I've been saying this over and over when debating people about nukes or missiles in relation to a libertarian/anarchist society.
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"When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act." - Why The Gun is Civilization

MaineShark

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2012, 04:32:51 pm »

A gun is a tool.  A plane is a tool, as well.  Who holds that tool and how they use it, is what's important.  The Federal government's atrocities do not make planes, tanks, guns, or whatever evil, but it does make the Federal government evil.
AMEN to this! I've been saying this over and over when debating people about nukes or missiles in relation to a libertarian/anarchist society.

From The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress:
Quote from: Robert A. Heinlein
"Professor, your words sound good but there is something slippery about them. Too much power in the hands of individuals—surely you would not want . . well, H-missiles for example—to be controlled by one irresponsible person?"

"My point is that one person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist—and they do—some man controls them. In terms of morals there is no such thing as a 'state.' Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts."
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

rossby

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2012, 05:05:24 pm »

You can say Americans committed genocide in Iraq but my experiences lead me to a far different conclusion.  I have a hard time putting into words what I think freedom is because to be honest I really don't know after seeing the suffering there.  It is a hard thing to put into words or even say, but looking at those people not sure how much freedom of speech or religion, or any other thing we take for granted meant to them but I knew tranquility and serenity would be priceless. All the BoR wouldn't matter without security.

There is little security in life, except as people come together to provide each other mutual [physical] security. That is the purpose of our governments, ostensibly. The BoR providers for security from the security-providers by restricting the way the government can provide for your security. The BoR wouldn't matter without security? No! The BoR is security: if the people running this show are violating these provisions, they are acting beyond the authority they have been given.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 05:09:05 pm by B.D. Ross »
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crossonscout

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2012, 05:33:39 pm »

Cyborgs?  That's your concern?

I think he's just saying if cyborgs replaced men in combat, he wouldn't care to have a standing army of men and a strong U.S. Military because they'd have a strong cyborg military instead.
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"When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act." - Why The Gun is Civilization

MaineShark

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2012, 05:39:29 pm »

Cyborgs?  That's your concern?
I think he's just saying if cyborgs replaced men in combat, he wouldn't care to have a standing army of men and a strong U.S. Military because they'd have a strong cyborg military instead.

I just don't see that as a pressing concern, given that nothing approaching the technology to create cyborgs currently exists.  Current man-machine interfaces are far too clumsy to characterize them as anything like a "cyborg."
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

crossonscout

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2012, 05:40:29 pm »

Cyborgs?  That's your concern?
I think he's just saying if cyborgs replaced men in combat, he wouldn't care to have a standing army of men and a strong U.S. Military because they'd have a strong cyborg military instead.

I just don't see that as a pressing concern, given that nothing approaching the technology to create cyborgs currently exists.  Current man-machine interfaces are far too clumsy to characterize them as anything like a "cyborg."

I agree.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 05:54:03 pm by crossonscout »
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"When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act." - Why The Gun is Civilization

rossby

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2012, 05:49:03 pm »

Cyborgs?  That's your concern?
I think he's just saying if cyborgs replaced men in combat, he wouldn't care to have a standing army of men and a strong U.S. Military because they'd have a strong cyborg military instead.

I just don't see that as a pressing concern, given that nothing approaching the technology to create cyborgs currently exists.  Current man-machine interfaces are far too clumsy to characterize them as anything like a "cyborg."

Why don't people take libertarian-types seriously?
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Steven Douglas

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2012, 08:19:12 pm »

Cyborgs?  That's your concern?
I think he's just saying if cyborgs replaced men in combat, he wouldn't care to have a standing army of men and a strong U.S. Military because they'd have a strong cyborg military instead.

I just don't see that as a pressing concern, given that nothing approaching the technology to create cyborgs currently exists.  Current man-machine interfaces are far too clumsy to characterize them as anything like a "cyborg."

Well, I do have a digital pacemaker, for what it's worth, and if you equip me with a drone some might call that a start in the cyborg direction.  I dunno, maybe it's the fact that I'm long out of the military and past military age that makes the pacemaker a non-issue.   (Whew! Dodged a bullet there.)
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Thank you, Murray and Friedrich, I'll take it from here and we'll put it all to a test.

telomerase

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 07:26:22 pm »

I'm a member of the Sullivan county Republican committee, and ran for state rep this year (and was defeated, because of Wendell Willkie Romney  :P

I wrote an article a while back about how the Swiss have stayed out of war for nearly 200 years:

http://original.antiwar.com/bwalker/2012/02/01/how-the-swiss-opted-out-of-war/
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2012, 07:31:18 pm »

You think that you lost at the State level because of Romney?
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crossonscout

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2012, 08:27:38 pm »

You think that you lost at the State level because of Romney?

He probably feels like the fact he ran a Republican ticket, and some people tend to vote party line, and Romney ran a terrible campaign - therefore association by party line probably affected his race.
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"When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act." - Why The Gun is Civilization

time4liberty

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 10:29:56 pm »

You think that you lost at the State level because of Romney?

He probably feels like the fact he ran a Republican ticket, and some people tend to vote party line, and Romney ran a terrible campaign - therefore association by party line probably affected his race.

This is absolutely true. Whether it's the reason any particular person lost any particular race is hard to say.
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telomerase

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Re: How do Free Staters feel about Republicans?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 08:19:49 am »

Yes, exactly, a LOT of people only watch the Presidential race and vote straight ticket.

Here's what I wrote about the Romney disaster, two weeks before the election:

http://bedford-nh.patch.com/blog_posts/romney-leading-republicans-to-defeat-just-like-wendell-willkie
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