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Author Topic: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?  (Read 20878 times)

Bob D.

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2012, 06:17:10 pm »

I was probably a little harsh in agreeing with the OP. According to the ticker at the top of the page, only 1100 FSP people have moved the NH. So that is not many people to vote for GJ or RP. I was thinking does the FSP really like Obama or something?  ??? Any ways, I did a write in for old faithful "Ron Paul", I am not responsible for either of those clowns. I feel sorry for America, it has chosen the welfare president. I doubt we will ever see different party in the white house in our lifetimes? He has the populous trained to wait for handouts, it goes totally against capitalism and democracy. America has changed for the worse. America has died.  :P
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MaineShark

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2012, 06:31:07 pm »

A excerpt from a reply that Jeremy Olson made to a Free Keene article:

Quote
We got nearly every freestater back into office and picked up a couple new ones—yet the Republican party took some major blows. In my area, the Republicans lost Charles Sova, Paul Mirski (long-time rep), and Paul Simard (another incumbent), all to the Dems. The contemptible Catherine Mulholland beat Simard, but the other two were beat by Democratic newbies. Bill O'Brien barely squeaked back in (came in second in a two-seat district), and Paul Ingbretson lost, also both to newbies.

Yet, as far as freestaters go, we got back Mark Warden, Joel Winters, both Dan and Carol McGuire, Keith Murphy, Laura Jones, and we picked up Emily Sandblade and Mike Sylvia. I haven’t found all the results yet, but I think all we lost was Jenn Coffey. I’m not sure if he’s a freestater, but we even picked up another pro-liberty rep on the D side of the aisle, Tim O’Flaherty.

So we can elect freestaters completely independent of the ebbs and flows of the two-party duopoly. We got a bunch in during a Republican tidal wave in 2010, and now a bunch (back) in during a Democratic backlash, too. Looks like the Freedom Movement has “staying power” indeed. Take that, nanny-statists!

And honestly, having a balance between the two parties greatly helps our movement. (Thanks for all your efforts slimming down the Republican majority, nanny-statists!) Just like in the presidential race, where it all comes down to how 4–5 states vote, it means that votes on various partisan issues will now be very, very close—and the liberty coalition could be the swing vote that pushes it one way or another.

I think that sums it up, quite well.

When things are close between the two parties, that's exactly when the liberty vote takes control, because many bills are passed or dropped by margins so small that a few handfuls of liberty-minded Representatives essentially control the result.

This is a good result.
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Bazil

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2012, 06:36:59 pm »

What do you mean still officially Maine residents?

They own a house there, which is their legal address.  Even if they have spent the majority of the last month or so in NH.  They have zero proof of spending any time in NH.
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Bazil

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2012, 06:52:14 pm »

A excerpt from a reply that Jeremy Olson made to a Free Keene article:

Quote
We got nearly every freestater back into office and picked up a couple new ones—yet the Republican party took some major blows. In my area, the Republicans lost Charles Sova, Paul Mirski (long-time rep), and Paul Simard (another incumbent), all to the Dems. The contemptible Catherine Mulholland beat Simard, but the other two were beat by Democratic newbies. Bill O'Brien barely squeaked back in (came in second in a two-seat district), and Paul Ingbretson lost, also both to newbies.

Yet, as far as freestaters go, we got back Mark Warden, Joel Winters, both Dan and Carol McGuire, Keith Murphy, Laura Jones, and we picked up Emily Sandblade and Mike Sylvia. I haven’t found all the results yet, but I think all we lost was Jenn Coffey. I’m not sure if he’s a freestater, but we even picked up another pro-liberty rep on the D side of the aisle, Tim O’Flaherty.

So we can elect freestaters completely independent of the ebbs and flows of the two-party duopoly. We got a bunch in during a Republican tidal wave in 2010, and now a bunch (back) in during a Democratic backlash, too. Looks like the Freedom Movement has “staying power” indeed. Take that, nanny-statists!

And honestly, having a balance between the two parties greatly helps our movement. (Thanks for all your efforts slimming down the Republican majority, nanny-statists!) Just like in the presidential race, where it all comes down to how 4–5 states vote, it means that votes on various partisan issues will now be very, very close—and the liberty coalition could be the swing vote that pushes it one way or another.

I think that sums it up, quite well.

When things are close between the two parties, that's exactly when the liberty vote takes control, because many bills are passed or dropped by margins so small that a few handfuls of liberty-minded Representatives essentially control the result.

This is a good result.

Hmm how many pro-liberty members will be in the new senate and the new congress?  We know the margin in the senate is going to be only one vote,  what about the congress?  If the number of liberty members in each body is greater than the margin between the two parties this could be very good indeed.  If the liberty leaning members band together they could have more say in the new session than ever before.  Especially if there are liberty members in both parties in both bodies.  People should look up how the minority parties in the Israeli Knesset work.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:57:02 pm by Bazil »
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elkingrey

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 10:31:14 pm »

I don't understand why so many people equate the success of the FSP with "success" at the polls. Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.

Libertarians are never ever ever never never ever never ever NEVER EVER EVER going to turn the government into a libertarian organization. Get over it!

The real success of the FSP is anarchist by nature.

crossonscout

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 11:16:11 pm »

I don't understand why so many people equate the success of the FSP with "success" at the polls. Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.

Libertarians are never ever ever never never ever never ever NEVER EVER EVER going to turn the government into a libertarian organization. Get over it!

The real success of the FSP is anarchist by nature.

Agreed. Small L libertarians anyway. There IS a strategy that I can agree to though, realizing that the world as it stands now would not accept a total lack of government (as much as I believe it's possible to achieve, I think it'll take a long time and a very active effort on behalf of small L libertarians like myself and many in the FSP) ... I can agree to the idea of limiting government to life liberty and property while we work (will take decades if not centuries) to change the minds of the people through education and activism and trail-blazing such as what the FSP is doing... It'll be a VERY long and VERY difficult battle but it IS one worth doing. :-)
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trueblue

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2012, 04:50:36 am »

Sounds like you're just a Republican who's upset, not someone who cares about liberty; anyone who cares about liberty would not care about the Romney/Obama race, since there's no actual difference between the candidates.

Please do not presume that you know me, or make unqualified statements about my motives. I've been registered LP since 1994 and actually was one of thousands and thousands of volunteers who got the petitions out and people registered LP to get permanent ballot status for the LP in the 1990. I've donated 5 figures to LP candidates the last 10 years which is about 3 times what I have GOP people. And 99% of those donations went to LP candidates I knew had less than .001% chance of winning


... you are welcome.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 05:13:06 am by trueblue »
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trueblue

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2012, 04:56:55 am »

However, I don't see why the state voting for Obama rather than Romney is a bad thing. Actually it seems good. This election was basically a referendum on social issues since when it comes to financial and foreign policy issues, both candidates are the exact same.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything LP about a person who renewed the Patriot Act, engorged the TSA, signed the NDAA, attacked the medical marijuana industry in California, run 1 Trillion dollar deficits 4 years in a row, and lets US citizens die in a foreign country while they are begging for help.

There is nothing libertarian about Barack Obama. I voted for Romney because I wanted to slow down the race to destruction of our country. No other reason.
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trueblue

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2012, 05:12:13 am »

I don't understand why so many people equate the success of the FSP with "success" at the polls. Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.

Libertarians are never ever ever never never ever never ever NEVER EVER EVER going to turn the government into a libertarian organization. Get over it!

The real success of the FSP is anarchist by nature.

Yes, well the statements above just put the FSP back by about 20 years. If the FSP is anarchist by nature, and half don't vote, it will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER, BE MORE THAN A FADED T-SHIRT IN SOME LOSERS CLOSET.

I hope this "person" is just a nut job and does not represent the FSP. If that is not the case, I've been wasting my efforts and time on the FSP.

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Bob D.

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2012, 07:23:43 am »

Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.


Why would you pass up such a powerful right that the founding fathers gave us with the blood of their ancestors?

Please vote, or stop complaining! If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
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Bazil

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2012, 08:51:46 am »

Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.


Why would you pass up such a powerful right that the founding fathers gave us with the blood of their ancestors?

Please vote, or stop complaining! If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Many people brought to NH by the FSP don't believe in government in anyway, including being any part of it
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Bob D.

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2012, 09:54:04 am »

Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.


Why would you pass up such a powerful right that the founding fathers gave us with the blood of their ancestors?

Please vote, or stop complaining! If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Many people brought to NH by the FSP don't believe in government in anyway, including being any part of it

Well you are in the United States, and it does have a government put in place by the founding fathers. I thought the whole concept of the FSP was to vote for Liberty minded individuals? Maybe you should be starting a free country instead?
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Bazil

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2012, 10:11:11 am »

Do you have any idea how many Free Staters like myself didn't vote at all? Probably half if I had to take a guess.


Why would you pass up such a powerful right that the founding fathers gave us with the blood of their ancestors?

Please vote, or stop complaining! If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Many people brought to NH by the FSP don't believe in government in anyway, including being any part of it

Well you are in the United States, and it does have a government put in place by the founding fathers. I thought the whole concept of the FSP was to vote for Liberty minded individuals? Maybe you should be starting a free country instead?

Heh, I'm not an anarchist, just defending those who are.  I definitely think voting for pro-liberty candidates is a good thing, and I did in the election.  However the goal of the FSP isn't to vote for liberty minded individuals necessarily, but to help make NH more free.  Many anarchists are doing that through activism and by spreading the word about the FSP.  So even if they aren't voting they are doing something.
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dalebert

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2012, 10:43:38 am »

Yes, well the statements above just put the FSP back by about 20 years. If the FSP is anarchist by nature, and half don't vote, it will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER, BE MORE THAN A FADED T-SHIRT IN SOME LOSERS CLOSET.

I'd say at least half and probably more of all the really active free-staters that I've actually met are anarchist. That doesn't mean they don't vote though. Some of the even run for office and at least two won recently just off the top of my head.

That said, Jason Sorens himself has said that just voting is not worth moving for. The way 20k people will change things is by being VERY politically active like running for office or at least being active volunteers for people who do. Don't put so much hope in the act of voting.

Bob D.

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Re: Is it time to admit the FSP failed in its state selection?
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2012, 10:49:36 am »


So even if they aren't voting they are doing something.

Well to all the anarchists, thanks for all you have done for the FSP.  >:D

I will affirm voting in a Libertarian Government in all branches will be just as helpful to the cause.
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