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Author Topic: Stupid Housing Market  (Read 3268 times)

Eric Freerock

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Stupid Housing Market
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:09:47 pm »

My wife and I want to move back to NH by the fall of 2013 but it's starting to look like it might not happen given how much value our house has lost since we bought it and are now very upside-down on the mortgage.  Anyone else getting killed in the housing market to get to NH?

anon37268573

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 03:23:24 pm »

My wife and I want to move back to NH by the fall of 2013 but it's starting to look like it might not happen given how much value our house has lost since we bought it and are now very upside-down on the mortgage.  Anyone else getting killed in the housing market to get to NH?

If a person walked away and dumped their house at the height of the 2008 Financial Crisis and/or declared bankruptcy, the foreclosure/bankruptcy would be 7 years old in 2015. Assuming they wanted to move to NH in 2013 and to spend two years renting to get an idea of what area they would like to live in they'd likely be much better off than if they tried to stay in their 2008 home through 2015.

I don't expect the US economy to significantly improve until at least probably 2022/2023, more than 7 years from now.

What about trying to rent your house if you don't want to do/can't do a short sale/foreclosure/bankruptcy? What area of the country do you live in?  Do you honestly think your house will ever again be worth what you paid for it? Perhaps, you should talk to a local real estate agent and a financial planner and ask them the same question... then work through some models/scenarios with the financial planner.

I think the last couple years have shown that the principal reduction programs that many people were hoping for are not going to materialize.
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greap

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 05:06:24 pm »

I don't expect the US economy to significantly improve until at least probably 2022/2023, more than 7 years from now.

Consumption is already back above pre-downturn levels, net exports are up and the only AD component yet to recover is private investment, which is trending up.

ZeroC, house prices are recovering and are back to their historical baseline. If you bought your house at the peak of the bubble the value will not recover, the situation which created wont be happening again. If you are only slightly upside down and you have the money I would suggest some high value improvements and hold off until 2014 for value to recover some more.

Its worth keeping in mind that you will not loose all the value, capital loss rules mean you can use the loss to offset capital gains (if you have investments you will be realizing) and you can carry over $3,000 of the loss against your regular income each year until the loss is 0.
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Jack Nelson

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 07:30:04 pm »

I couldn't help but be tempted to add my two cents' worth.  My fiancee had been paying on an $ 1136. per month mortgage, plus an almost $ 700. second, until I convinced her of the futility of it with these words:  In real estate, you make your money when you buy, not when you sell.  That is straight from Robert T. Kiyosaki's books.  Yes, that's right -- the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series.  If he is making money on real estate and was near-destitute in 1985, what does he know that most of us don't?  I told my fiancee that continuing to pay on her house in DC is like pouring sand (sand being analogous to the money) into the deep blue sea in hopes that your seamount will eventually become an island.  Poor business deals wherein you lose your shirt, are everywhere to be found.  You made your "depth" when you signed on the dotted line for the ridiculously high sale price.  Most people, alas, buy with their emotions.  And then, it's with their emotions (specifically, the emotion of FEAR) that they continue to throw good money after bad.  Think of what we could be doing with that $ 1136., I said, and she was convinced.  Moreover, the bank doesn't want your house.  If you get a private mailbox at a place like UPS Store and get ALL OF YOUR MAIL going to that, and repent forever of the terrible habit of opening your mail at times other than at 8 - 11 AM on business days (when you're at your best); KEEP THE MAIL AWAY FROM YOUR HOME, and come to realize just how bad of an idea it is to continue to reward these crooks with loan payments, you'll be in the Free State living your dream sooner than you had thought.  Ignore the fear, but pay attention to your mail and make your plans to be out on YOUR TERMS, from your current upside-down home.  Ron Paul said, houses are durable consumer goods.  That's a great way to think of them.  NOT as most would like to think of them, namely, as permanent abodes.  And if Obama wins re-election, as so many of his handlers are working to make happen, and we go to martial law in the U.S., and they confiscate our firearms, your home won't be worth the rubble it's made of, anyway.  Your wealth is in the realtionships with the people you can trust.  When the chips are down, that's what you have left.
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Jack Nelson

time4liberty

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 10:32:19 pm »

Housing's cheap here though. I mean, it's the same either way, right -- if you're going to sell then buy, if prices go up everywhere, it doesn't really help you.
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FrugalFannie

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 02:05:47 pm »

My wife and I want to move back to NH by the fall of 2013 but it's starting to look like it might not happen given how much value our house has lost since we bought it and are now very upside-down on the mortgage.  Anyone else getting killed in the housing market to get to NH?

Yes. Getting rid of the house is the only thing keeping us in MA. I am almost ready to rent it out and move out!
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Eric Freerock

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 02:27:57 pm »

I couldn't help but be tempted to add my two cents' worth.  My fiancee had been paying on an $ 1136. per month mortgage, plus an almost $ 700. second, until I convinced her of the futility of it with these words:  In real estate, you make your money when you buy, not when you sell.  That is straight from Robert T. Kiyosaki's books.  Yes, that's right -- the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series.  If he is making money on real estate and was near-destitute in 1985, what does he know that most of us don't?  I told my fiancee that continuing to pay on her house in DC is like pouring sand (sand being analogous to the money) into the deep blue sea in hopes that your seamount will eventually become an island.  Poor business deals wherein you lose your shirt, are everywhere to be found.  You made your "depth" when you signed on the dotted line for the ridiculously high sale price.  Most people, alas, buy with their emotions.  And then, it's with their emotions (specifically, the emotion of FEAR) that they continue to throw good money after bad.  Think of what we could be doing with that $ 1136., I said, and she was convinced.  Moreover, the bank doesn't want your house.  If you get a private mailbox at a place like UPS Store and get ALL OF YOUR MAIL going to that, and repent forever of the terrible habit of opening your mail at times other than at 8 - 11 AM on business days (when you're at your best); KEEP THE MAIL AWAY FROM YOUR HOME, and come to realize just how bad of an idea it is to continue to reward these crooks with loan payments, you'll be in the Free State living your dream sooner than you had thought.  Ignore the fear, but pay attention to your mail and make your plans to be out on YOUR TERMS, from your current upside-down home.  Ron Paul said, houses are durable consumer goods.  That's a great way to think of them.  NOT as most would like to think of them, namely, as permanent abodes.  And if Obama wins re-election, as so many of his handlers are working to make happen, and we go to martial law in the U.S., and they confiscate our firearms, your home won't be worth the rubble it's made of, anyway.  Your wealth is in the realtionships with the people you can trust.  When the chips are down, that's what you have left.

Yes, but if you can't be trusted to pay your debts there's not much you can do.  So unfortunately I agreed to pay X on X terms and I must abide by that agreement.

Amazingly someone down the road just sold their house of the same specs as ours for about 2k less then what we owe, so there may be hope yet if we can get a few things fixed up.  Any handyman free staters in Columbus Ohio? :-)

John Edward Mercier

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 07:49:08 pm »

If your home is a PERMANENT ABODE than its value really shouldn't matter.
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Krythis

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2012, 08:38:01 am »

Thankfully when I bought my first house in '10 I purchased a duplex. I have to wait until next June to move though. I took the first time home buyers credit and it requires this be my primary residence for 3 years. Seems silly since the whole point was to sell houses and aide the market. So why not allow the tax payer to purchase a second home if they kept the first?

Another problem I see is NH houses are much more expensive then they are in WNY. So saving up 10+ % for a down payment will take some time. Starting to browse around the foreclosure sites to see if that is a viable answer. If I find some foreclosed property needing work with some land I could always bring my RV out and work on the house while maintaining my primary residence in WNY.

Anyone have any tips on moving and the first time home buyers and/or foreclosures?
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FrugalFannie

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 08:45:31 am »

I couldn't help but be tempted to add my two cents' worth.  My fiancee had been paying on an $ 1136. per month mortgage, plus an almost $ 700. second, until I convinced her of the futility of it with these words:  In real estate, you make your money when you buy, not when you sell.  That is straight from Robert T. Kiyosaki's books.  Yes, that's right -- the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series.  If he is making money on real estate and was near-destitute in 1985, what does he know that most of us don't?  I told my fiancee that continuing to pay on her house in DC is like pouring sand (sand being analogous to the money) into the deep blue sea in hopes that your seamount will eventually become an island.  Poor business deals wherein you lose your shirt, are everywhere to be found.  You made your "depth" when you signed on the dotted line for the ridiculously high sale price.  Most people, alas, buy with their emotions.  And then, it's with their emotions (specifically, the emotion of FEAR) that they continue to throw good money after bad.  Think of what we could be doing with that $ 1136., I said, and she was convinced.  Moreover, the bank doesn't want your house.  If you get a private mailbox at a place like UPS Store and get ALL OF YOUR MAIL going to that, and repent forever of the terrible habit of opening your mail at times other than at 8 - 11 AM on business days (when you're at your best); KEEP THE MAIL AWAY FROM YOUR HOME, and come to realize just how bad of an idea it is to continue to reward these crooks with loan payments, you'll be in the Free State living your dream sooner than you had thought.  Ignore the fear, but pay attention to your mail and make your plans to be out on YOUR TERMS, from your current upside-down home.  Ron Paul said, houses are durable consumer goods.  That's a great way to think of them.  NOT as most would like to think of them, namely, as permanent abodes.  And if Obama wins re-election, as so many of his handlers are working to make happen, and we go to martial law in the U.S., and they confiscate our firearms, your home won't be worth the rubble it's made of, anyway.  Your wealth is in the realtionships with the people you can trust.  When the chips are down, that's what you have left.

The bank made a business decision to loan her money. She should try to make her decision based on facts and sound judgement, not emotion. Businesses change directions all the time based on the economy. Why shouldn't people?
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Bob D.

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 11:03:55 am »

I bought my house in the last housing crisis back in 1999 and got a good deal, so I should be OK either way. I am also considering the end of 2013 for a move if I can get it together.
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azn4mrpaul

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 08:03:29 pm »

One person is saying that the economy is going to recover and house prices are near high baseline.  I read that this recovery is because investors driving up prices and not first time buyers.  What does it means?  I think people don't have money to buy because they don't have job or don't feel good about their jobs.  We're a nation of renters now.

How can the economy recover?  We have 15 trillion dollars in debt and Congress is not going to stop spending or be willing to destroy the fiat system and start over.  They don't want to because they don't want to lose wealth and power when currency is destroyed.  This means Americans are stuck paying back the debt and interests.  Governments and municipals are going to raise taxes and this means businesses will continue to outsource.

Sorry about the political talk but I just don't see a recovery.  I see a welfare nation.  I'm not an economist and nobody can tell the future but the big factors just don't compute.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Stupid Housing Market
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 11:25:45 am »

It gets to a point were no option exists but to cut spending.

If creditors don't feel that they will get repaid with real value... they stop lending.
And the populace will only accept taxation so much before it 'clears it head'.

The problem is how we define 'welfare'.
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