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[Starclopsofish]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about attending Porcfest next summer and I look forward to participating the counter-economy. What do most Porcupines trade in? Are FRNs the dominant currency, or do most people trade in gold, silver, or other goods?

I've recently made my first small PM investment in the form of rounds, 90% dimes, and a gram (lol) of gold. Shire Silver also looks like a good (albeit expensive) currency, so I ordered a bit of that as well. How successful was Shire Silver at the last Porcfest? Did a lot of people use that, or some other form of sound money?

I'm also interested in the concept of change (meaning fractional money) in a metal-based economy. Do people just round the transaction off to the gram or quarter ounce?
 

[1212jtraceur]

I went to my first PorcFest this summer. I'd say FRNs are still dominant, but from what I remember, most of the vendors would also take silver and gold. There was even some BitCoin transactions going on, too.

After learning more about counter-economics at PorcFest, I too have bought a bit of silver (in the form of old US coins). There were multiple silver vendors present, and their coins/cards were generally accepted. In addition, there were even people who would laminate old US coins within a business card, so as to indicate their value.

I don't know a great deal about the concept of change in a metal-based economy, but I'll note that rounding off is present even with US coins, just to a different degree.

[Starclopsofish]

Yeah, it all comes down to what level of precision you'd like. In the case of silver, I think the most common "small" unit would be a 90% dime, right? I've seen people like Monarch sell 1 gram rounds as well, but each of these are still valued in terms of whole FRNs, and it seems that smaller denominations would be too difficult to work with (easy to lose, etc.)

It seems like more granularity would be needed to make exchanges with silver work on a large scale. (This is just speculation on my part though, I'd expect the guys on this forum to be better qualified on the matter )

I've seen some vendors selling "silver shot" - perhaps customers could get as close to possible to the weight in rounds, etc, and add shot until they hit the required weight?

[Ron Helwig]

Yeah, it all comes down to what level of precision you'd like. In the case of silver, I think the most common "small" unit would be a 90% dime, right? I've seen people like Monarch sell 1 gram rounds as well, but each of these are still valued in terms of whole FRNs, and it seems that smaller denominations would be too difficult to work with (easy to lose, etc.)

It seems like more granularity would be needed to make exchanges with silver work on a large scale. (This is just speculation on my part though, I'd expect the guys on this forum to be better qualified on the matter )

I've seen some vendors selling "silver shot" - perhaps customers could get as close to possible to the weight in rounds, etc, and add shot until they hit the required weight?

FRNs are still the dominant currency, but I know there was at least one vendor there who wouldn't take them. I expect the usage of alternatives will only grow.

The guys with the dimes laminated in cards got the idea from me (Shire Silver) and I like the competition. In fact, we're looking at combining our efforts for next year and making a one-stop shop for various alternatives.

I strongly believe you are correct that the smaller coins/rounds/bars are too unwieldy for everyday use, which is where the laminated cards shine. Here at Shire Silver, we've just introduced a new half gram silver card which will help with making change. We've also added a twentieth gram gold card.

And as far as our prices being high - yes, they are above spot, which so many people have come to think in. But compared to other similar products, like Northwest Territorial Mint's smallest rounds, we are significantly cheaper. The smaller units do have to have a premium, but I'm hopeful that the market will find the advantages of the smaller units to be worth more than the additional cost.

[Liberty603]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/29/137478762/the-tuesday-podcast-libertarian-summer-camp

(click the link then click "Listen to the Podcast" at the top of the page)

The reporter didn't completely "get it", but it's still an interesting piece.

[Starclopsofish]

@Ron

After taking a look at small bullion options from other vendors, you're actually right. I guess a certain amount of markup just comes with the territory of offering very small units of PMs.

While looking at that new half-gram card, I noticed that you changed the design. (Looks nice!) Do the cards still have the "port" for viewing the metal, or is it just laminated onto the back?

Sorry if it sounded like I was trashing your products- I was sold on the idea even with the perception of higher prices, and I'm planning on including Shire Silver as part of my bullion investment each month.

[Ron Helwig]

@Ron

After taking a look at small bullion options from other vendors, you're actually right. I guess a certain amount of markup just comes with the territory of offering very small units of PMs.

While looking at that new half-gram card, I noticed that you changed the design. (Looks nice!) Do the cards still have the "port" for viewing the metal, or is it just laminated onto the back?

Sorry if it sounded like I was trashing your products- I was sold on the idea even with the perception of higher prices, and I'm planning on including Shire Silver as part of my bullion investment each month.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I've been pretty busy lately.

Yes, the new design still includes the punched out centers: ovals for "big 5s", large circles for "ones', and small circles for "halves". I tried to find different shaped punches, but couldn't find any that would work. But the punched out centers helps the vision-impaired determine the denomination, so I definitely want to keep that.

[FrugalFannie]

I will be selling food at the PorcFest and I will be accepting silver (currency and rounds) along with FRNs. No gold since it would be too hard to 'make change' unless you are buying for the house!

[maxxoccupancy]

Da Shire

[MaineShark]

I will be selling food at the PorcFest and I will be accepting silver (currency and rounds) along with FRNs. No gold since it would be too hard to 'make change' unless you are buying for the house!

Shire Silver gold products are fractional-gram, so they aren't particularly high-valued.  The smaller ones could easily be used for a meal, and the larger ones could easily be used for multiple meals.

[time4liberty]

I found that silver dimes were the most popular (that's pre '65). They're easy to use, and you can get them for near spot. I definitely would recommend them.

[FrugalFannie]

We will be pricing our food in FRNs and in silver (rounds or partial rounds and silver coins).

The plan is to stay as close to spot as possible when the week stays when valuing rounds and junk silver so we can be consistent for the whole week. We will have to likely 'round' on the value but it shouldn't be a large difference to the consumer (i.e. you won't give up $12 worth of silver for a $7 breakfast). We haven't worked out the details yet but it will be posted at our site. We welcome silver.  We have not decided on accepting Shire Silver yet but I have sent Ron an email and I will let you know once we decide.