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Author Topic: More and other criteria to weigh states with  (Read 141757 times)

Mike Lorrey

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Re:Compulsory School Attendance
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2003, 10:00:05 am »

Compulsory School Age -- I don't know if this has already been discussed, it could just be a component of the homeschooling laws, but I was just curious...

AK
"between 7 and 16" (A child who is six years old and enrolled in the first grade in public school is subject to the compulsory attendance law. A parent may withdraw such a child from public school within 60 days of enrollment, and the child will not be subject to the compulsory attendance law until age seven.)
snip....
NH
"at least 6 years of age [on September 30] and under 16 years of age"
snip...
My rough analysis of these laws without going into fine points:

MT=WY=ND=ID=NH=AK > SD=VT=ME> DE

Out of these, Montana and Wyoming possibly seem to be the lesser evil, but all compulsory school attendance laws have a way of interfering with parent's rights, so couple that with how they give an out, and we can see that from the spreadsheet values for Homeschooling, AK and ID offer the most freedom, followed by DE,MT,WY,  NH,SD take the lower end and DE, VT and ME are bad news.

THis is obviously a cherry picking and disinformation. NH has entirely legalized homeschooling, to the point that there are over 3600 children in the state now in homeschooling. Furthermore, we have the highest percent of school age children attending private schools in the entire country.

Try to get your facts straight next time.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2003, 10:02:40 am »

Cost of Living in Cities
http://www.bestplaces.net/html/cost_of_living.html

1. Wyoming
Cheyenne 97.6
Casper 96.0

snip...
10. New Hampshire
Nashua 138.5
Manchester 110.5
Portsmouth-Rochester 138.6

More biased cherry picking. Try weighting the cost of living against the per capita income. I think you'll find markedly different results, with NH on top and Wyoming at the bottom.

Try to get your facts straight next time.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2003, 10:15:02 am »

You forget to underline :)

New Hampshire (Article 83): "it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools"

Quite so. A more accurate reading of this article would seem to indicate that if the state is to be responsible for funding public education, they must also equally fund religious education, given the equal weight given to cherishing 'seminaries' along with public schools.

The fact is that the Claremont decision, along with our current districting law, were both written by Chief Justice David Brock, a self-styled one-man-legislature who was brought out of retirement to run the court when the previous justice wouldn't go Claremont's way. This is the legacy of Jeanne Shaheen's rule.

At Esc2NH, when we discussed first items on the FSP agenda when we got to the Free State, I sang:

"Get all the rope in Hampshire,
find a tall oak tree,
round up all of them judges,
hang em high in the street,
for all the people to see."

Getting rid of David Brock is item one. Repairing the damage he caused is item two. The people will cheer us all the way. Nothing makes the people cherish freedom regained more than being forced to live in tyranny for a short period.

Credit: paraphrasing "Beer for My Horses" by Toby Keith and Willy Nelson
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EMOR

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2003, 10:24:25 am »

Cost of Living in Cities
http://www.bestplaces.net/html/cost_of_living.html

1. Wyoming
Cheyenne 97.6
Casper 96.0

snip...
10. New Hampshire
Nashua 138.5
Manchester 110.5
Portsmouth-Rochester 138.6

More biased cherry picking. Try weighting the cost of living against the per capita income. I think you'll find markedly different results, with NH on top and Wyoming at the bottom.

Try to get your facts straight next time.
I actually read something about this on the This is Distressing thread and another thread. I think you should read a little more before you accuse someone of being biased or lying.
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WY>SD>AK>VT>ND>DE>MT>ID>NH>ME

Rearden

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2003, 10:32:46 am »

Yes, the Claremont decision was a sick joke, a gross extension of power by a State Supreme Court filled with appointees from a previous governor.  Here are my thoughts on the matter:

1.) For the past five years, citizens in NH have been hopping mad about this decision.  The link you posted is only one of several.  Have you seen the C.A.I.R.E. website yet?  http://www.we-caire-nh.org/caire_a.html  Several towns, tired of paying the donor tax, actually went to court and asserted their right under article 10 to secede from the state!  Ironically, these towns were in the southeastern corner of the state, that portion that has been the most developed and settled by transplants from Massachusetts.  Some people want to call these folks "statists." I call them "allies" and "refugees."

2.) The effect of Claremont is NOT to require public education in all towns.  The scenario I described could go forward, without any interference from the state.  The effect of Claremont was to require the state to institute a statewide property tax, taking money from "donor" towns and transferring it to "receiver towns," such as Claremont.  This tax was initially set at $6.00 per $1000, but due to the controversy has been lowered to $5.80, and the governor has laid out a timetable to lower it to $3.00.  This is still obviously onerous, and I expect our support of local control over education, education tax credits, and abolition of the statewide property tax to be huge selling points for us in NH.

To reiterate: The Claremont decision does not require that towns provide public education.  The NH Constitution does not require public education.  

As gross as Claremont was, all it required was that the state institute a statewide property tax and funnel money into poor towns.  Those towns could still simply abolish their schools.  


You want to see how pissed off the donor towns are about being forced to pay for kids in Claremont?  This is a riot:

http://www.newington.nh.us/pirates.htm

And this is on the town's official site!!!!
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freedomroad

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2003, 11:08:40 am »

Cost of Living in Cities
http://www.bestplaces.net/html/cost_of_living.html

1. Wyoming
Cheyenne 97.6
Casper 96.0

snip...
10. New Hampshire
Nashua 138.5
Manchester 110.5
Portsmouth-Rochester 138.6

More biased cherry picking. Try weighting the cost of living against the per capita income. I think you'll find markedly different results, with NH on top and Wyoming at the bottom.

Try to get your facts straight next time.

I got the information from Varrin.  He does not think that either WY or NH is the best state.  He said, and I double checked, that data included all of the cities listed on the website (it did).  I did no cherry picking (i've never picked a cherry  :) )



Take a look at the FSP Spreadsheet.  It explains this very issue.

Here are the rankings:

Income: Mean household income scaled by cost of living:

Because Wyoming has a very low cost of living and a good mean household income, it does best on this measure (along with Delaware).  NH does well because both of the measures are high in NH.  This measure really hurts Montana.
   
WY 10.00  
AK 5.00  
ND 5.00  
VT 3.89  
SD 5.56  
DE 10.00  
ID 0.00  
MT 0.00  
NH 9.44  
ME 0.56                              


Clearly, Wyoming is not the worst and New Hampshire is not the best.  They are about equal.

Of course, for those people on a fixed income or that have a job they can do anywhere, states like WY, SD, ND, ID, and MT do much better than NH because they have lower a lower cost of living.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2003, 11:10:41 am by FreedomRoad »
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Karl

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2003, 11:23:30 am »

1. Wyoming
Cheyenne 97.6
Casper 96.0

snip...
10. New Hampshire
Nashua 138.5
Manchester 110.5
Portsmouth-Rochester 138.6

More biased cherry picking. Try weighting the cost of living against the per capita income. I think you'll find markedly different results, with NH on top and Wyoming at the bottom.

Try to get your facts straight next time.

Indeed.  When local wage data is considered, Manchester is MORE AFFORDABLE than either Cheyenne and Casper.  Portsmouth and Nashua are still more expensive, but not nearly as much as earlier posts implied.

CityCOLMean WageCOL/Mean Wage (a lower number is more affordable)
Cheyenne97.613.976.99
Casper96.014.076.82
Nashua138.517.717.82
Manchester110.516.736.60
Porstmouth138.615.968.71

Sources:
Wyoming Wage Tables (2001):
http://doe.state.wy.us/lmi/01oespub/toc.htm

New Hampshire Wage Tables (2002):
http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/oesfiles.htm
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #172 on: July 20, 2003, 01:25:28 am »


THis is obviously a cherry picking and disinformation. NH has entirely legalized homeschooling, to the point that there are over 3600 children in the state now in homeschooling. Furthermore, we have the highest percent of school age children attending private schools in the entire country.

Try to get your facts straight next time.

What?!


I work very hard to research and present information  carefully, nothing in this post was intended to mislead.

Quote
NH has entirely legalized homeschooling,
The quote that you are attacking has to do with compulsory school attendance, by the way, but since you brought it up . . .

Quote
NH has entirely legalized homeschooling, to the point that there are over 3600 children in the state now in homeschooling.
 

Entirely legalized you say?

Home School Statute: N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 193-A.

Quote
A parent shall notify the commissioner of education, district superintendent, or principal of a non-public school of his intention to provide home education within 30 days of withdrawing from a public school or moving into the school district or by the start of public schools in that school district. Sec. 193-A:5(I), Ed. Regs. 315.03(d).

Notification shall include: names, addresses and birth dates of all children and a list of subjects to be taught each child. § 193-A:5(II).

How about this standard? . . .

Home School Statute: N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 193-A:6(I)
Quote
The parent shall maintain a portfolio of records and materials relative to the home education program consisting of: a log of reading materials used and samples of writings, worksheets, workbooks or creative materials used or developed by the child. Portfolio must be retained for two years by parent.

I can't even fit all the regulations that New Hampshire has on homeschooling here on this post!  Go read them for yourself, here's a good starting point: http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

Quote
NH has entirely legalized homeschooling, to the point that there are over 3600 children in the state now in homeschooling.
 
Really how do you know the number?  Care to share with us the numbers for other states too?  I wonder how many people there are in Alaska and Idaho, being as how parents don't even have to report that they are homeschooling!  Obviously, by the sheer numbers of participants in various lists, organizations and home school activism from Idaho, it is very high, but the number is unknown because the state has no mechanism for keeping count.

Quote
Furthermore, we have the highest percent of school age children attending private schools in the entire country.
Wrong.

Quote
Try to get your facts straight next time.
No, next time, you try to get your facts straight, especially if you are going to accuse others of being misleading and manipulative.
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2003, 03:53:16 pm by exitus... »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2003, 08:34:00 am »

AK
Private school enrollment: 6,172
Number of schools: 69
Number of teachers: 572

Public school enrollment: 134,023

DE
Private school enrollment: 22,779
Number of schools: 96
Number of teachers: 1,784

Public school enrollment: 115,486  

ID
Private school enrollment: 10,209
Number of schools: 94
Number of teachers: 790

Public school enrollment: 246,000

ME
Private school enrollment: 18,287
Number of schools: 139
Number of teachers: 1,760

Public school enrollment: 211,461

MT
Private school enrollment: 8,711
Number of schools: 90
Number of teachers: 740

Public school enrollment: 151,970

NH
Private school enrollment: 23,383
Number of schools: 171
Number of teachers: 2,208

Public school enrollment: 211,429

ND
Private school enrollment: 7,148
Number of schools: 55
Number of teachers: 545

Public school enrollment: 106,047

SD
Private school enrollment: 9,364
Number of schools: 83
Number of teachers: 743

Public school enrollment: 126,560

VT
Private school enrollment: 12,170
Number of schools: 122
Number of teachers: 1,361

Public school enrollment: 99,599

WY
Private school enrollment: 2,221
Number of schools: 41
Number of teachers: 241

Public school enrollment: 87,768


Source: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/Schools/schoolchoice_states.cfm

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Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2003, 10:33:56 am »

Hmmm, I wonder if it's worth putting up a measure of the percentage of schooled kids in private schools, with these numbers?

The only drawback is, that this will also be a measure somewhat of affluence (extra money to pay for the private school) and how bad the government schools are (to induce parents to pull their kids out).

I guess I'll add that as a row to my spreadsheet anyway, as it's pretty easy to do.
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2003, 11:04:26 am »

My wife is a university trained horticulturist and a certified commercial pesticide applicator in both Utah and California with several additional category certifications.  I trust her authority in analyzing the pesticide laws in our various states.  Here is her opinion of the laws in our various states:


SD>WY  (MT~ID~ME~ND~VT~UT  individual +'s,-'s cancel out) . . .>AK>NH>. . . California>DE

These rankings are weighted heavily in favor of states that do not require additional certifications and licensing for pesticides in the same category, this went against AK, NH and DE heavily, she finds that highly insulting and nannyish for people that already understand a category of pesticide  -- California only requires category, not specific pesticide license.

South Dakota is far and away the best among our states, Delaware is far and away the worst she has ever seen because of the extreme requirements for obtaining a license that she finds would be impossible for her to obtain.  In comparison, everything else might be more of a draw.


Here are some of her notes (largely unreadable, sorry)
Quote
http://www.agri.state.id.us/PDF/Ag%20Resources/frmPrivApp.pdf
ID
name address,
RU=10
CH 20
both=30
reciprocity through application
2 year
$50,000 per person/100,000 commercial only


NH
commercial dealer $5
commercial private non-profit $20
Dealer license $20
Private Permits $20
$50 per pesticide!
reciprocity

DE surety bond >100,000/$300,000
$50 one year
7 categories
marked vehicle requirement
social security #
birthdate, photo ID, notarized application
2 year journeyman training requirement before obtaining license
applies to any pesticide not just EPA restricted-use off own property (employees cannot legally spray Round-up without license).
civil penalties

+does have veterinarian exception other states do not.

Wyoming

Restricted use for private use
Commercial applicator
$0 for private
$25 for 5 years for commerical


Montana
1 year all
proof of financial liability $1500 for aerial and $500 ground
$75 application fee
operator license 100 mile radius limitation for
out -of state must file power of attorney designating sec. state  as agent (no reciprocity)

Alaska
$300,00/500,000 surety bond (can opt-out of this requirement in many situations)
duration of license depends on exam score!
Only certified for individual pesticides
highly detailed record-keeping requirement with official forms
no apparent fee requirements

North Dakota
private general use $25
Fumigation $25
Commercial $53 +$10 per category
$100,000 bond for commercial
very limited exam opportunities per year
license required for general use

South Dakota
Private=
no fee
all $1,000+ commodity producers must obtain
5 years
---
app. license=commercial
$25,20,25 late fee 50

Vermont
http://www.vermontagriculture.com/VTregs91.htm
Pre-app notice req.
civil penalties, $5,000 per viol.
cert. non commercial (class B)
Noncommercial appl (Class C) $40
$20 fee for each category $75
yearly renewal
local regulation (burlington only)

Maine
l.l. 100,000 per person - $300,000 per occurrence.
Regulation civil penalty=Y
$10 per category
5 years
narrow defined requirements all farmers
ag=private, all others = commercial
 




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« Last Edit: July 23, 2003, 11:07:18 am by exitus... »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #176 on: July 25, 2003, 06:52:59 pm »

Please click on the link below to send a pre-written letter to your U.S. representative, thanking him or her for voting to stop the DEA raids against state-legalized medical marijuana. (House Roll Call 420)
_____________

Among our candidate states:

ME
 Thomas  Allen D
 Yes
 
ME
 Mike Michaud D
 Yes
 
VT Bernard  Sanders I
 Yes  

ID
 C. L. Otter R
 Yes
 
ID
 Michael Simpson R
 Yes

http://www.mpp.org/house2003/index.html
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2003, 06:53:46 pm by exitus... »
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phylinidaho

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #177 on: July 26, 2003, 08:50:21 am »

Our View: ... and an odd coalition

Now here´s an odd political alliance.

Rep. C.L. ?Butch? Otter, R-Idaho.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, who´s running for the White House on an anti-war platform.

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, who once ran for president himself, as a Libertarian.

But give this weird coalition its due.

This week, they were on the winning side of a vote to roll back a portion of the USA Patriot Act, the hasty and overreaching legislative response to 9/11.

Otter and his cosponsors convinced 306 House colleagues to withhold funding for the so-called and much-reviled ?sneak and peek? search.

This provision of the Patriot Act ? the anti-domestic terrorism law passed weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks ? allows federal agents to search a business or home, without notifying the subject of the search warrant.

Tuesday´s 309-118 vote was a milestone, according to Otter´s office; it´s the first time either house has voted to roll back a piece of the Patriot Act. The amendment could be in trouble in the Senate, where the Justice Department and the FBI are gearing up to fight to keep the law intact, Otter spokesman Mark Warbis said.

Otter has gotten plenty of mileage on the service-club circuit railing against the Patriot Act, which he opposed in 2001.

But to his credit, he has done more than just pound the podium. He is looking for coalitions, even unlikely ones, to bring this law back into line with civil liberties.

Edition Date: 07-26-2003  
http://www.idahostatesman.com/Opinion/story.asp?ID=45223

 
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #178 on: July 29, 2003, 11:35:31 am »

 
 %Registered    %Voted

U.S.  63.9         54.7  
 
ND    91.1         69.8
ME    80.3         69.2  
AK    72.5         65.5
VT    72.0         63.3
SD    70.9         58.7
MT    70.0         62.2  
NH    69.6         63.3  
DE    67.9         62.2  
WY    68.6         62.5  
ID    61.4         53.9


 
 % of population U.S. Citizens

WY      99.3
SD      99.1
ND      99.0
MT      98.9
ME      98.7
VT      98.5
AK      96.8
ID      96.1
DE      95.6
NH      95.0
U.S.    92.0


Source: Census Bureau
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Kelton Baker

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #179 on: July 30, 2003, 08:14:56 am »

FSP state minimum wage laws:
States with minimum wage same as federal ($5.15):
ID, WY, MT, NH, SD, ND

States with minimum wage laws higher than the federal:
These are states with socialist leanings

VT - $6.25
DE - $6.15 (effective 1/1/03)
ME - $6.25 (effective 1/1/03)
AK - $7.15 (effective 1/1/03)


...

States that have at least 1 city with a 'living wage' and have a state minimum wage law:
VT
...

Source:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
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