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Author Topic: Changing a state vs it being already free  (Read 9523 times)

Solitar

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Changing a state vs it being already free
« on: August 15, 2002, 09:48:09 pm »

The FSP's measures of cultural variables of a state are not enough. Does the FSP have the experience and numbers to do the job? Even the smallest state may be too large for the FSP to deal with. Start small with a town or county and work up to a portion of a state as you gain experience and credibilty.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2002, 03:45:45 am by Joe, aka, Solitar »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2002, 11:20:16 am »

You're absolutely right: culture isn't everything.  In fact, size is probably more important.  If we can change a tiny leftist state more completely than we can a large conservative state, we should choose the former.  There really aren't any libertarian states out there right now; every state has pretty significant restrictions on citizens' peaceful behavior.  That should mean even more that the culture variables should be somewhat discounted: every state is going to be a challenge for us.  For that reason I would say # of voters is the most important variable for us.
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Halo

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2002, 09:02:45 pm »

Let's pick a state with the least gun laws, then shoot everyone that doesn't go along with us.

Just kidding. But, what is the first order of business? Laws can't be changed overnight, and politicians can't be removed from office overnight. There may be failures to accomplish goals, setbacks, etc. Doesn't mean we give up, of course, but not having a "political" mind, I don't know what the right way to go about achieving change.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2002, 10:40:14 pm »

Start with forming grassroots lobbying organizations, running for local office, getting involved in party organizations, infiltrating media; then work up.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Solitar

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2002, 03:50:34 pm »

Jason wrote this which bears repeating in size three type:
Quote
Start with forming grassroots lobbying organizations, running for local office, getting involved in party organizations, infiltrating media; then work up.
If FSP activists do it right they could be welcomed with open arms, homes and meetings. Maybe the incoming FSP activists would hear this from the traditionalist old-timers and their adult children who didn't leave for the city:

"Thank Gosh you're here! We were afraid the outsiders (no offense) were going to take over and run us out of our towns and communities. Now we have hope because you'll run for offices and tackle issues that none of us had the energy left to do (again). How can we help you?"


Now if the FSP can find a state filled with people who would accept in the above fashion...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2002, 10:56:35 am by Joe, aka, Solitar »
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Robert H.

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2002, 12:43:19 am »


Now if the FSP can find a state filled with people who would accept in the above fashion...


A natural place to start that process would be to personally contact conservative/libertarian groups that are already established in the state and see if they would be willing to "join forces" with us.  This would provide the benefit of allowing us access to some political infrastructure that is already in place, and since we would be working with locals who are already established it might also go a long way toward helping us shed that "outsider takeover" image.  These groups could even contact media outlets and let them know that they're excited by the prospect of our coming to their state.

Alaska's AIP would be an example of an organization that might be helpful, but they're pretty much unique among the states that we're considering (to my knowledge).  In the other states, we'd likely be linking up with local GOP or libertarian party branches, or other third party groups as well...where they exist in an organized form that is.

All of this would be good as a temporary measure at the very least, allowing us to transition and still be somewhat influential while we're setting up our own infrastrucure as well.

Solitar

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2002, 10:35:40 am »

Robert,
From my discussions over the last two years with other activist Libertarian Party members in Colorado, I know several in this state who are disillusioned with the LP enough to break off to become a pragmatic version of the LP.  Behind those several are, no doubt, dozens more who have had it with the LP and are truly politically homeless again. I'm sure most of them would agree with my advice to keep the libertarian name out of the new party because of the baggage associated with the LP. Thus the FSP does have allies in those states. The FSP just needs to rekindle their fires for yet one more try at turning things around - at least at a local and state level. That's another feeling these activists share, they believe the LP's emphasis on, and failure in, Presidential races and national politics has sacrificed success at the grassroots. The FSP can offer these activists a winning, and I emphasize "winning" alternative to the LP.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 08:55:13 pm by Joe, aka, Solitar »
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Robert H.

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2002, 12:51:38 am »


...we do have allies in those states. The FSP just needs to rekindle their fires for yet one more try at turning things around - at least at a local and state level. That's another feeling these activists share, they believe the LP's emphasis on, and failure in, Presidential races and national politics has sacrificed success at the grassroots. The FSP can offer these activists a winning, and we emphasize "winning" alternative to the LP.


That's excellent then.  I think that we will definitely need homegrown allies.  As for sacrificing success at the grassroots, it seems to go almost hand-in-hand with party establishment.  The party elite set an agenda that they want forwarded at all costs, and the inevitable result is some degree of selling out on the issues that energized their party at the grassroots level in the first place.  The GOP has evidenced this in recent years.  For the longest time, they ran on the idea of downsizing government and handing more freedoms back to the states and the people.  Then, after they'd been in power for awhile, they abandoned their agenda for downsizing government and decided to see how they could use government to carry out an agenda that was only a bit less socialistic than what the Democrats had in mind.  This fundamental change of direction has really alienated a lot of the Republican base.  I don't know the details in regard to events within the LP, but I suspect that it would probably have a lot to do with internal party-power politics there as well.  It seems to be the same no matter where you go; it's just the nature of the beast, I suspsect.  The FSP does offer a great alternative though.

And yes, I agree that it would be best to do away with the LP name if we're moved to starting our own party.  People have some pretty confused ideas about what Libertarians are all about, and trying to change that ingrained perception would be rather like trying to paddle up Niagara Falls.   :)

Thor

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2002, 11:35:34 am »


And yes, I agree that it would be best to do away with the LP name if we're moved to starting our own party.  People have some pretty confused ideas about what Libertarians are all about, and trying to change that ingrained perception would be rather like trying to paddle up Niagara Falls.   :)


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Elizabeth

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2002, 11:30:39 pm »


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Eeek!  Just a teensy reminder... as a non-profit, FSP Inc. will never be a political party.... but we will almost certainly spin off a party or PAC.  Just need to be careful about making that distinction.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Changing the new state vs it being ready made
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2002, 10:40:10 am »



If FSP activists do it right they could be welcomed with open arms, homes and meetings. Maybe the incoming FSP activists would hear this from the traditionalist old-timers and their adult children who didn't leave for the city:

"Thank Gosh you're here! We were afraid the outsiders (no offense) were going to take over and run us out of our towns and communities. Now we have hope because you'll run for offices and tackle issues that none of us had the energy left to do (again). How can we help you?"





We could be even more accepted if we worked to elect native libertarians.  There have to be some already there.

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mactruk

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Re:Changing a state vs it being already free
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2002, 01:38:28 pm »

  Here where I live we have a gentleman who bought a radio station (am) and goes on three hous a day sending the message of freedom.  A few things that I have noticed that worked or raised blood pressure in our area in the broadcast is exposure.  Live reading of news, tax filings of 5013c (pro socialist) organizations, political issues of which anyone is allowed to call in and comment.  This has allowed new ideas and freedom issues to sink in without the media spinning it.  You would be amazed at what is talked about and freedom is at the top of the issues.  
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freedomroad

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Re:Changing a state vs it being already free
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2003, 02:49:58 pm »

This is an interesting topic.  I think the states that are esaist to change are the states that are already the freest.

What states are most free?  Alaska and Wyoming are the least regulated

Lowest taxes?  Alaska, South Dakota, New H., and Wyoming

The recently updated state spreadsheet goes though a lot of factors: http://www.freestateproject.com/files/statecomparisons.xls

Other factors are covered in my report on all 50 states:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=967&start=0
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Robert H.

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Re:Changing a state vs it being already free
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2003, 02:49:14 am »

This is an interesting topic.  I think the states that are esaist to change are the states that are already the freest.

These will also be the states where any gains we make (and the cause of liberty in general) will be easiest to defend from encroaching statism.  The fort, so to speak, is already there to a great extent; we just need to help the residents man it and shore it up.

Dalamar49

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Re:Changing a state vs it being already free
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2003, 07:10:33 pm »

I agree manning the fort of Freedom in the west is way easier than manning a siege on the fortress of Statism in the east.

Wyoming or bust!
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