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Author Topic: Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control  (Read 39030 times)

Karl

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2003, 02:42:26 pm »

Section 159:14
    159:14 Exemption. – None of the provisions of this chapter shall prohibit an individual not licensed under the provisions thereof who is not engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers from selling a pistol or revolver to a person licensed under this chapter or to a person personally known to him.
Source. 1967, 220:9, eff. Aug. 21, 1967.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-14.htm

I think the confusion here is on exactly what the word "license" refers to.  Does it refer to a license to sell or a license to carry?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 02:48:24 pm by Karl Beisel »
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JonM

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2003, 02:47:23 pm »

Section 159:14
    159:14 Exemption. – None of the provisions of this chapter shall prohibit an individual not licensed under the provisions thereof who is not engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers from selling a pistol or revolver to a person licensed under this chapter or to a person personally known to him.
Source. 1967, 220:9, eff. Aug. 21, 1967.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-14.htm

I think the confusion here is on exactly what the word "license" refers to.  Does it refer to a license to sell or a license to carry?

That's a good question, this chapter covers both the license to sell and the license to carry.  It might be worth someone calling up a police dept to ask if this means you can sell a handgun to someone you don't know, so long as they have a license to carry.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2003, 02:58:02 pm »


Michelle proved that the statute zxcv quoted didn’t apply to individuals.


Did not.

Quote

In New Hampshire, someone selling a pistol much verify the identity of the person buying the gun.


Or else go to prison for a Felony.

Quote

In Wyoming, if you want to legally carry a weapon concealed, Wyoming will take your fingerprints and submit them to the FBI


No contest.  I'd rather have someone send my prints somewhere than go to prison, or be Threatened with Prison if I consider doing something so innocuous as offer to sell my own gun on my own Home Page.
If I want to sell my own gun on my own Home Page in NH, without going to prison, I must try to obtain a License.  Do they take my prints when I do that?

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Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2003, 03:09:30 pm »



The first Part says it's a Felony to possess the handgun intending to sell it; or to offer to sell it - to ANYONE!

The Exemption is ANOTHER PART that says you may sell a handgun to someone you know personally, or to a licensed dealer.  But it does not <<NOT>> say that you can offer to sell it to someone you know, only that you can sell it!  The first part, Felony Conviction for Offering, still stands!

In any case, the "Exemption" still does not allow me to sell a handgun to my neighbor (whom I do not know personally), or to advertise it on my Home Page.  Even with the broadest interpretation of this poorly-worded Exemption, this is a far harsher Law than even Florida's or any of the other Free State candidates I have heard of.


Section 159:14
    159:14 Exemption. &#8211; None of the provisions of this chapter shall prohibit an individual not licensed under the provisions thereof who is not engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers from selling a pistol or revolver to a person licensed under this chapter or to a person personally known to him.
Source. 1967, 220:9, eff. Aug. 21, 1967.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-14.htm

Note how it says: "...under this chapter..."  This means that you may indeed sell a pistol or revolver to your neighbor, or anyone else that you know.


Of course.  The Exemption allows you to do that.  The Exemption deals with SELLING.
But the originally quoted part deals with OFFERING FOR SALE AND ADVERTISING.  The Exemption does not allow you to advertise your own gun for sale on your own Home Page.  Under the first part, you will go to prison for a Felony if you do that; and the exemption will not save you, since it does not anywhere say that there is any way you can ADVERTISE your gun for sale.  The fact that you sold it, or did not sell it, has nothing to do with the fact that the first part states clearly that you are guilty of a Felony when you ADVERTISE or OFFER in any other way to sell your gun.

Quote

  The point of this entire chapter is to make it illegal for licensed gun dealers to sell firearms to known felons.  That's it.


I was not aware that New Hampshire legislators were so stupid that they are unable to say it is illegal for licensed gun dealers to sell firearms to known felons when that is what they really mean.  They did not end up saying that, whatever their intention.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 03:13:51 pm by Zack Bass »
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Stumpy

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2003, 03:17:01 pm »

Michelle proved that the statute zxcv quoted didn’t apply to individuals.
Did not.

Did too! Oh wait, let’s not be childish.

The gist of the New Hampshire law is: you must verify to whom you are selling a pistol.

The Wyoming law mandates fingerprinting concealed gun-carriers and delivering those fingerprints to the FBI.

The Wyoming law is ominous. They are cooperating with the fed/gov in amassing your personal info into a massive national database.
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JonM

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2003, 03:22:01 pm »


Of course.  The Exemption allows you to do that.  The Exemption deals with SELLING.
But the originally quoted part deals with OFFERING FOR SALE AND ADVERTISING.  The Exemption does not allow you to advertise your own gun for sale on your own Home Page.  Under the first part, you will go to prison for a Felony if you do that; and the exemption will not save you, since it does not anywhere say that there is any way you can ADVERTISE your gun for sale.  The fact that you sold it, or did not sell it, has nothing to do with the fact that the first part states clearly that you are guilty of a Felony when you ADVERTISE or OFFER in any other way to sell your gun.

Quote

  The point of this entire chapter is to make it illegal for licensed gun dealers to sell firearms to known felons.  That's it.


I was not aware that New Hampshire legislators were so stupid that they are unable to say it is illegal for licensed gun dealers to sell firearms to known felons when that is what they really mean.  They did not end up saying that, whatever their intention.



http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/159.html

The entire chapter.  Read it.  Sections 3, 3a, 7 and 21 deal with selling to and possession by felons.

You can sell your handgun at a garage sale, flea market, or gun show, as pointed out by the anti-gun people when speaking of New Hampshire.  

Do you intend to sell your handgun on a web page?  Are you doing this now in Florida?  If you sold it via a web page, would you ship it to the buyer sight unseen?  What if the buyer lived out of state?

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Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2003, 03:22:02 pm »


Michelle proved that the statute zxcv quoted didn’t apply to individuals.
Did not.

Did too!


Did not.

Are saying that Michelle proved that the Statute does not make it a Felony for an Individual to sell a handgun to another Individual he does not know?
Are saying that Michelle proved that the Statute does not make it a Felony for an Individual to advertise his handgun for sale on his Home Page?

Is that what you are saying so snottily?

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Karl

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2003, 03:26:07 pm »

I believe Zack is correct.  Either the purchaser or the seller must be a licensed dealer, or they must personally know one another.  Here it is from the Hollis, NH police department (see point 5):

http://www.hollis.nh.us/police/gunlaws.htm

But to reiterate Doug's points earlier -- 159:10 was last ammended in 1973, which certainly qualifies as the "old guard."  Without a doubt, NH's gun laws have improved considerablly in the last year.  Perhaps we can expect that trend to continue.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2003, 03:27:43 pm »


You can sell your handgun at a garage sale, flea market, or gun show, as pointed out by the anti-gun people when speaking of New Hampshire.  
Do you intend to sell your handgun on a web page?  Are you doing this now in Florida?  If you sold it via a web page, would you ship it to the buyer sight unseen?


You know darn well that I pointed out the important difference between selling and advertising.  We have no disagreement about what you may sell, do we?  So why keep bringing it up?
The point is, you may not advertise in NH.  I said nothing about selling a gun on my Home Page, only advertising it.  NH will convict me of a Felony for doing that, and imprison me.

If you want to advertise in NH, you must get a FEDERAl FIREARMS LICENSE.
http://BATF.com
And guess what, they send your prints to the FBI.     Duh.

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Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2003, 03:32:10 pm »

Either the purchaser or the seller must be a licensed dealer


And the only one who may advertise is the potential seller who is a licensed dealer.
And in order to be a Licensed Dealer, you must get a Federal license.  Which involves the BATF taking your prints.
So not only does NH imprison you for a Felony if you try to put your handgun on your Home Page, the only way to avoid prison is to have your fingerprints taken by the Feds ahead of time.
Compare to Wyoming.

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Stumpy

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2003, 03:34:04 pm »

This is simply redirection to divert attention from Wyoming’s horrendous law, approved unanimously a few months ago by Wyoming’s House and Senate.

This law mandates the fingerprinting of concealed weapons carriers and Wyoming gives the fingerprints to the FBI.



If you hear a yelp when you throw a rock down a dark alley, you know you hit something.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 03:40:39 pm by Doug(stumpy) »
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Rearden

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2003, 03:38:57 pm »



That's a good question, this chapter covers both the license to sell and the license to carry.  It might be worth someone calling up a police dept to ask if this means you can sell a handgun to someone you don't know, so long as they have a license to carry.

Judging from the following section, I think that 159:14 applies only to gun dealers.

159:8 License to Sell. – The selectmen of a town and the chief of police of a city may grant licenses, the form of which shall be prescribed by the director of the division of state police, effective for not more than 3 years from date of issue, permitting the licensee to sell at retail pistols and revolvers subject to the following conditions, for breach of any of which the licensee shall be subject to forfeiture:
    I. The business shall be carried on only in the building designated in the license or at any organized sporting show or arms collectors' meeting sponsored by a chartered club or organization.
    II. The license or a copy thereof, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the premises where it can easily be read.
    III. No pistol, revolver, or other firearm shall be delivered to a purchaser not personally known to the seller or who does not present clear evidence of his identity; nor to a person who has been convicted of a felony.
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Michelle

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2003, 03:43:14 pm »

I just called the NH state police (603-679-3333) who told me there are absolutely no NH laws or regulations to indicate that an individual may not advertise in the classifieds or in any other manner to sell a handgun in a private sale.

Sorry, Zack, but I think you need to find another way to divert attention from the original topic of this thread.
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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2003, 03:49:42 pm »

III. No pistol, revolver, or other firearm shall be delivered to a
purchaser not personally known to the seller or who does not present clear
evidence of his identity; nor to a person who has been convicted of a
felony.


It mean you have to check identity of the buyer. Do not sell to felon. Once you check identity it is personaly known person:)
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tehlurk

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2003, 03:49:47 pm »

meanwhile this debate keeps bumping the thread to the top

are you sure Zack isn't an agent for the other side?
Go NH!
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