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Author Topic: Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control  (Read 38966 times)

Zxcv

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #120 on: July 18, 2003, 05:44:04 pm »

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OK, it came out recently that Wyoming’s Legislature voted unanimously to “ratchet up” gun control in their state.

Joseph Goebbels created the concept of the big lie. Repeat it over and over again and the audience begins to believe it.

Doug, even your compatriots have given up on this one, admitting it is just a continuation of current policy (while they assert it shouldn't have been done in the first place, a point that is at least debatable). But you are stuck on this one, hoping I guess that at least the dumbest of the observers here will be snookered.

You know, a reasonable researcher might have done it this way: Stumble on this vote. "Hey, this is something I can use to whack Wyoming. And even a unanimous vote, that is really bad. But say, there must be something more to this. Unanimous votes almost never happen. They usually have to be really non-controversial to be unanimous. Maybe I should ask the author of the bill what was going on, it might not be such a big deal after all. I wouldn't want to put something out on the forum and then have to eat crow because I was too lazy to check things out first. And maybe I should look at New Hampshire's laws too, before I post, to make sure there isn't something even worse in there. I wouldn't want to have a Wyoming researcher dig that out on me and make NH look even worse. Hey, I'd better be careful with this..."

But not you, oh, no. You went to ambush Wyoming on this without checking anything out, then got bushwhacked at your own ambush because NH's laws are much worse, and (unlike your apparent thesis where some aliens have taken over the legislature of the most gun-happy state in the union and turned them all into gun prohibitionists), the Wyoming vote was nothing at all. And the guy who wrote the bill wants to get Vermont carry in the state, and welcomes us there to help him do it!

Hell, without counting cc legislation (which tends to be wordy), NH's laws for just pistols and revolvers contain 2863 words, while Wyoming's for all weapons contain only 561! It's a good thing NH's recent legislation on firearms is positive, because it will take a long time for them to catch up to where Wyoming is right now!

If Wyoming is picked, you can just go ahead and carry without getting that background check you're so worried about. If you get caught it is only a misdemeanor - unlike New Hampshire where they hit you with a felony the second time around.

Doug, why do you keep coming back for more?  ::)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2003, 05:49:16 pm by Zxcv »
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JonM

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #121 on: July 18, 2003, 05:55:16 pm »

And that Wyoming was sending data on its citizens to the FBI without the legal authority to do so (since this bill was meant to fix that) for many years doesn't worry you? <G>

Look it all boils down to no one place is perfect, if it were there would never have been 10 candidate states and we wouldn't be having these fun discussions, we'd all just move there and be happy.

At worst Wyoming codified in law something they have been doing that many pro-liberty people have a problem with.  At best they never really thought about it and can be convinced to adopt a Vermont Carry law.

At worst New Hampshire has some stupid restrictions on how and to whom you can sell handguns.  At best the fact that those laws are all pretty damn old, and the recent actions by the government to increase gun freedom point to the chance that the will be repealed.
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Stumpy

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #122 on: July 18, 2003, 06:11:23 pm »

Well Paul, if Wyoming’s new gun control law really were such a “non-issue”, your group would have moved on a long time ago. ;)

Since you seem to be squirming like a worm dropped on hot pavement, I believe you see Wyoming’s new gun control law as a bad thing.  
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thewaka

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #123 on: July 18, 2003, 07:25:55 pm »


It presents the question: if Wyoming’s legislature UNANIMOUSLY voted just a few months ago to require CCW permit applicants to be fingerprinted and to submit those fingerprints to the FBI, will Wyoming’s legislature actively oppose the goals of the Free State Project?

Do you think the legislature is static? There are also term limits in WY. And for those who say they will be repealed, see this article http://www.termlimits.org/Press/Press_Releases/20030203.html
. Dated 2-10-03, "Last week the House Corporations, Elections and Political Subdivisions Committee voted 7-2 against HB 157, a measure designed to repeal term limits." The rest of the article details who voted for and against the repeal as well as a couple of quotes.

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I believe New Hampshire’s legislature and governor will welcome the FSP and see us as allies in the cause of freedom.  ;D

And they'd better, since there are no term limits on the legislature.

So the question isn't who is the legislature now, but who can it be when we get there? It all comes down to the populace. Legislatures are always passing laws the people don't like. Otherwise they wouldn't have repealed the Oregon referendum (or whatever it is called) for term limits. So the culture needs to be reasonable for us to move to now (to me this leaves out DE [gun problem] and ND [homeschooling]) and reasonable belief that the people want enough of the things we want that we can get moving towards freedom, thereby encouraging those outside the state to move in for freedom. So these laws can and will be changed wherever we end up.

Diana
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Sardonicous

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #124 on: July 19, 2003, 06:12:10 pm »

Only those speaking in favor of Alaska or Vermont have any business commenting on Wy carry permit law.

seeing this crap comming from NH supporters who within the last week went from "spinning" the facts to "open deception" really disapoints me.

And New Hampshire requires a permit too.

This is nothing more than one group of slaves commenting on the size of another group's chains.
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Michelle

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #125 on: July 19, 2003, 06:25:55 pm »

Only those speaking in favor of Alaska or Vermont have any business commenting on Wy carry permit law.

seeing this crap comming from NH supporters who within the last week went from "spinning" the facts to "open deception" really disapoints me.

And New Hampshire requires a permit too.

This is nothing more than one group of slaves commenting on the size of another group's chains.

Sardonicous, do you care to elaborate on the supposed "open deception" that you think you see? Nobody ever said NH didn't require a license. The only states that don't are Vermont and Alaska, and they deserve to be commended for that.

Here are the facts:

New Hampshire offers "shall issue" CCW licenses. They just passed a bill that clarified existing state law saying that it was illegal for fingerprints to be required.

Wyoming also offers "shall issue" permits, but they require that all applicants be fingerprinted. These fingerprints (apparently) have been sent to the FBI for a background check for at least several years. Wyoming just unanimously passed a bill making it state law that all fingerprints are sent to the FBI.

That is what this thread is about. I fail to see anything that could be considered deception.
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Tony Stelik

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #126 on: July 19, 2003, 08:28:25 pm »

Is this discussion about which State is Free or Which State Will be Free?
From the posts it looks like we are campaigning the first. From FSP point of view it is of little importance.
Scary thought is that WY takes finder prints and sends them to FBI. This means close cooperation of WY legislature with federal government and means that state gives up its powers. Not good.
For the purpose of discussion which state will be free we have to consider how easy it is to repeal the stupid laws. In NH it is quite easy. I still do not see if it is so in WY.
WY supporters would do better job for FSP giving all of us information how to repeal law in question instead of ignoring it’s harmful consequences.
Since this is thread about WY law I would appreciate if WY supporters give us the plan of action to tepeal this horrible law.
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"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forgive you

Zack Bass

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Re:Wyoming Votes UNANIMOUSLY to Cooperate with FBI in Gun Control
« Reply #127 on: July 19, 2003, 11:33:48 pm »


Think about how debates went in the old days. You got a proposition that you had to argue on, one side or another (you didn't know which side before the event).


And this is guaranteed to produce mendacity.
This type of "Debate", arguing for a view you do not hold, is exactly what we don't want here.

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