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Author Topic: Colorado or NH?  (Read 9896 times)

Nairb

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Colorado or NH?
« on: October 15, 2011, 04:43:29 pm »

My wife and I are planning to start a photography business together, and we're interested in moving somewhere with a liberty-minded community which also offers a lot of options for outdoor activity.  We're considering either New Hampshire or Colorado.  We know that New Hampshire has no state income tax or general sales tax, while Colorado has both.  However, it seems like because Colorado has a larger population, it might be a better place to start a business. Also, CO has medical marijuana which seems like a big plus. Any other incite on this  Colorado vs. New Hampshire question would be appreciated. We just want as free, happy, and prosperous as possible.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 05:33:41 pm »

Colorado is a pretty good state, but it's not a better place to start a business than NH.

CO is ~50% larger in area than all of New England, but that's just government-drawn lines on the map.  Put a Colorado-sized border around New Hampshire, and you will have a region with greater population density - including the Boston metropolitan aria, which stretches well into NH and constitutes twice the economic might of Denver.  NH also has other "world class cities" like New York and Montreal about 4 hours away (the way I drive at least), etc.

Being in a smaller state that is surrounded by other states is actually a freedom advantage, because you get more legal flexibility over where you own property, where you work, where you play, etc.  NH may be behind on pot freedom, which is just a matter of time, but its neighbors are ahead.

Oh, and the Colorado busybodies would fine you for leaving your dog out.
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Fishercat

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 07:42:28 pm »

New Hampshire has the Free State Project.   ;)
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time4liberty

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 09:24:04 pm »

My wife and I are planning to start a photography business together, and we're interested in moving somewhere with a liberty-minded community which also offers a lot of options for outdoor activity.  We're considering either New Hampshire or Colorado.  We know that New Hampshire has no state income tax or general sales tax, while Colorado has both.  However, it seems like because Colorado has a larger population, it might be a better place to start a business. Also, CO has medical marijuana which seems like a big plus. Any other incite on this  Colorado vs. New Hampshire question would be appreciated. We just want as free, happy, and prosperous as possible.

Medical cannabis is coming soon in NH, guaranteed. All of the democrats and half the republicans want it, and it passed the house and senate this year. The only reason it's not law is that the highly anti-liberty governor vetoed it, and there was almost, but not quite enough votes for an override. He's not running again.

The liberty community here is many, many times larger and more active than anything you're going to find in colorado. My wife and I just got here a few months ago, and it's been awesome -- and the state is absolutely gorgeous.
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Retiree

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2011, 10:50:20 pm »

"New Hampshire has the Free State Project.   ;)"

I think Wyoming has one too.
http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

I would think between Colorado and New Hampshire the latter is clearly preferable from a freedom standpoint. (granted I do not live there) However, if you want to live in the Rockies consider Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Idaho which are all far less regulated than Colorado -- not to mention less costly.
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time4liberty

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 09:17:06 am »

"New Hampshire has the Free State Project.   ;)"

I think Wyoming has one too.
http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

I wish them every success, but nobody should be thinking that Wyoming is anywhere near the same scale as the FSP -- it's really a tiny handful of people, compared to thousands.

I would think between Colorado and New Hampshire the latter is clearly preferable from a freedom standpoint. (granted I do not live there) However, if you want to live in the Rockies consider Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Idaho which are all far less regulated than Colorado -- not to mention less costly.

Here's one ranking of freedom in the 50 states. http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011. NH is 1, Idaho is 4, Colorado is 7, Utah is 20, and Wyoming is 21.

NH has some beautiful mountains too -- though not as tall as the rockies ;).








« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 12:02:05 pm by time4liberty »
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freedomroad

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 09:55:50 am »

"New Hampshire has the Free State Project.   ;)"

I think Wyoming has one too.
http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

I would think between Colorado and New Hampshire the latter is clearly preferable from a freedom standpoint. (granted I do not live there) However, if you want to live in the Rockies consider Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Idaho which are all far less regulated than Colorado -- not to mention less costly.

As for comparing the size of the government in CO, WY, UT and so on.  The WY government is growing rapidly.  Check this study about it if you want.  Without 100s of liberty activists in WY, there doesn't seem to be a way to stop the rapid growth. https://legisweb.state.wy.us/LsoResearch/2007/07IP002.pdf  

There is only one FSP and it is in NH.  However, there are likely a few people moving to other places for more liberty.  For example, here is a recent thread on the RonPaulForums http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?320754-Free-State-Wyoming-vs.-Free-State-Project-%28New-Hampshire%29&p=3629659&viewfull=1#post3629659
This is a conversation between me and a guy that moved to WY as part of Free State Wyoming.  

Me: And when you consider that some of those movers aren't political activists and that some of them aren't even activists at all, what do you have? Maybe 10-30 current political activists that are movers.
Him: Some? The truth is: basically none are! Your guess of 10-30 is ten times too large; 1-3 is about right.
Me: Do Leadership Institute, American Majority, Campaign for Liberty or Young Americans for Liberty do training in WY, ND or MT?
Him: No.
He also said this: So, yes, the FSW is a small club for some libertarian and libertarianish and even conservative people in or interested in Wyoming. As a "movement" like envisioned in Boston's book Molon Labe, it's dead.
He continued in another post: The two FSW people most active politically and electorally are probably Don Wills and myself. And that's kind of a sad commentary, because I'm really not that active and don't have a lot of faith in the political system myself! But I did run for State House in 2010. I am the only FSWer I'm aware of who has run for an elected office.

So there you go.  It looks as though there are almost no political activists in WY that moved with FSW, there may be zero organized political training from national training groups in the whole several state region and there may have only been one failed political campaign because of FSW.  Whereas, 100s of political activists have moved to NH, there are frequent pro-liberty political training events in NH (maybe 5-10 a year) and there have been over 100 political campaigns in NH (dozens of them successful.)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 10:11:25 am by LoveAndPeace »
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freedomroad

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 10:23:36 am »

My wife and I are planning to start a photography business together, and we're interested in moving somewhere with a liberty-minded community which also offers a lot of options for outdoor activity.

Starting a biz is often very hard.  I recommend having a very well thought out biz plan and maybe still having a back-up plan.

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We're considering either New Hampshire or Colorado.  We know that New Hampshire has no state income tax or general sales tax, while Colorado has both.  However, it seems like because Colorado has a larger population, it might be a better place to start a business.


In general, I think you would do better in NH because of the lower taxes and much shorter drive times.  But, if you lived in Denver, you would be in a more dense area, population wise, than any part of NH.  If that will someway help your biz, it is something to consider.  If you are a liberty activist, you can likely network with other liberty activists in NH and that may help your biz in NH.

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Also, CO has medical marijuana which seems like a big plus.


I am not sure why that would be a big plus.  Maybe in CA and CO medical marijuana laws are very loose but in most of the states with such laws, they tend not to be very loose.  When medical marijuana comes to NH, the laws will likely start off highly regulated, so if you are so sick that you have to use marijuana to live, that is something to consider.  Marijuana is smoked by a larger percentage of the 20-30 population in NH than most states and arrests for marijuana are not very high in NH. Typically, if you hide it, you can get away with it in NH.

If this issue is really important to you, you being in NH may help bring about more sane medical marijuana laws more quickly, especially if you being an activist for the cause.

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We just want as free, happy, and prosperous as possible.

NH is the freest state in the US.  The state government actually shrank in size in NH this year.  That is something that is almost unheard of in modern history in the US.  With more and more liberty activists moving to NH and getting involved, the government will likely shrink again in NH.  The state government in CO will likely continue to grow year after year.  NH also the lowest crime, the lowest poverty rate and the highest median household income in the US.  Do you want kids?  NH is considered the best place to have a family.  NH also has the 4th lowest unemployment rate in the US.

This list is a little old but here are 101 Reasons to Move to NH
http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons
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Retiree

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 01:45:11 pm »

Here's one ranking of freedom in the 50 states. http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011. NH is 1, Idaho is 4, Colorado is 7, Utah is 20, and Wyoming is 21.

I am familiar with the Ruger-Sorens study. While the list of variables is extensive, their selection is somewhat arbitrary and ignores many critical factors such as laws that greatly favor governmental litigants as well as laws that decrease governmental tort and contract liability. These two examples are not the only omissions, but rather examples of possible oversights. (also the values given to the variables are essentially arbitrary)

The study is also overly concentrated with statutory law and ignores judge made laws which tend to be a nefarious means for “statists” to get their agenda on the books. Take Indiana for example, the Ruger-Sorens study ignores rulings like the Indiana supreme court’s decision that private citizens do not have the right to resist illegal actions by the government. Such judicial arrogations of legislative power are common, but far harder to quantify.

Along those lines, one problem with New Hampshire is while the legislature may be freedom minded, judges in New Hampshire state courts like their federal counterparts have life tenure.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 02:05:27 pm »

So its better to have judges react to political whim?
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time4liberty

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 02:38:16 pm »

Here's one ranking of freedom in the 50 states. http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011. NH is 1, Idaho is 4, Colorado is 7, Utah is 20, and Wyoming is 21.

I am familiar with the Ruger-Sorens study. While the list of variables is extensive, their selection is somewhat arbitrary and ignores many critical factors such as laws that greatly favor governmental litigants as well as laws that decrease governmental tort and contract liability. These two examples are not the only omissions, but rather examples of possible oversights. (also the values given to the variables are essentially arbitrary)

The study is also overly concentrated with statutory law and ignores judge made laws which tend to be a nefarious means for “statists” to get their agenda on the books. Take Indiana for example, the Ruger-Sorens study ignores rulings like the Indiana supreme court’s decision that private citizens do not have the right to resist illegal actions by the government. Such judicial arrogations of legislative power are common, but far harder to quantify.

Along those lines, one problem with New Hampshire is while the legislature may be freedom minded, judges in New Hampshire state courts like their federal counterparts have life tenure.


Those are good points, for sure. Perhaps we can pass a bill to eliminate life tenure for judges.

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So its better to have judges react to political whim?

It's better not to have de-facto monarchs enforcing their political whims on everyone else, for life, with little or no recourse. I'm no fan of "majority rules", but I do trust average people a lot more than I trust well connected lawyers.
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freedomroad

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2011, 02:42:16 pm »

The study is also overly concentrated with statutory law and ignores judge made laws which tend to be a nefarious means for “statists” to get their agenda on the books. Take Indiana for example, the Ruger-Sorens study ignores rulings like the Indiana supreme court’s decision that private citizens do not have the right to resist illegal actions by the government. Such judicial arrogations of legislative power are common, but far harder to quantify.

However, in that particular case, I don't even see how that could be applied.  The cut off was 2009 and that decision happened after 2009.

I cannot speak for other states but I know there is quite a bit of active judicial reform being attempted in NH.  For example, in 2010 the NH House Redress of Grievances Committee was brought back http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/committees/committeedetails.aspx?code=H45 , a bill to deal with better informing juries passed in the NH House and is in the NH Senate and the NH House disagreed with the NH courts of whether the legislature is able to order the attorney general to challenge ObamaCare.  In fact, the NH House just passed a House Resolution about that last week.

Then there are these bills for next year.

2012-H-2030-R Relating to the chief justice of the supreme court. Providing that the chief justice shall
adopt court rules with the concurrence of the general court.
CACR
Sponsors:
(Prime) Itse, Daniel - Rock. 09

2012-H-2045-R HB prohibiting state courts from using a foreign law or legal code in any ruling.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Duarte, Joe - Rock. 01

2012-H-2111-R requiring the courts to file reports of complaints against court officers, court staff, and
any other person involved in the administration of justice.
HB
Sponsors:
(Prime) Lambert, George - Hills 27

2012-H-2153-R HB relative to the applicability of foreign law in cases before New Hampshire courts.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Birdsell, Regina - Rock. 08

2012-H-2251-R Relating to judges and other judicial officers. Providing that the general court shall
have the sole authority to discipline and remove judges.
CACR
Sponsors:
(Prime) Oligny, Jeffrey - Rock. 08

2012-H-2280-R relative to applications for reconsideration in New Hampshire courts, including the
judicial branch family division.
HB
Sponsors:
(Prime) Lambert, George - Hills 27

2012-H-2330-R HB relative to payment of legal and court fees and costs for frivolous lawsuits.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Kurk, Neal - Hills 07

2012-H-2365-R HB relative to checking firearms at courthouse entrances.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Kreis, Kenneth - Merr. 06

2012-H-2387-R HB relative to family court rules.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Lambert, George - Hills 27

2012-H-2392-R HB establishing a "loser pays" system for court costs.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Bowers, Spec - Sull. 03
 
2012-H-2423-R CACR relating to the administration of the supreme court. Providing that Art 73-a be revised.
Sponsors:
(Prime) Mirski, Paul - Graf. 10

2012-H-2504-R requiring the courts to give every woman who gets a restraining order a gun and box of
ammunition and provide her with instruction in shooting.
HB
Sponsors:
(Prime) Kingsbury, Robert - Belk. 04

2012-H-2505-R establishing that courts can only base opinions on the New Hampshire Constitution
and the United States Constitution.
HB
Sponsors:
(Prime) DeLemus, Susan - Straf 01

2012-H-2587-R Relating to the allocation of authority between the legislative and judicial branches.
Providing that the supreme court shall determine the constitutionality of judicial acts
and the legislature shall determine the constitutionality of legislative acts.
CACR
Sponsors:
(Prime) Sorg, Gregory - Graf. 03

And there may be others that I missed :)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 02:55:58 pm by LoveAndPeace »
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Retiree

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2011, 02:52:20 pm »

This is a total guess on my part, but my assumption would be life tenure is in the New Hampshire state constitution. So it would likely require more than simply a statute and you might still be stuck with the present appointees. Now, there is always impeachment!

I agree that there are benefits to life tenure. Having jurists compelled to follow political winds would clearly be a problem. However, I have notice that even the most libertarian minded jurists become enamored with the state after a coupled decades on the bench. Take Posner on the 7th Cir or Ginsburg on the DC Cir, both started out as conservative, but have moved further to the left.
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time4liberty

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 04:04:16 pm »

Here's the portion on the NH constitution dealing with the judiciary. I don't see anything explicitly requiring life terms:

http://www.nh.gov/constitution/judicial.html
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Retiree

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Re: Colorado or NH?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 04:39:21 pm »

Article. 73. "The tenure that all commissioned officers shall have by law in their offices shall be expressed in their respective commissions, and all judicial officers duly appointed, commissioned and sworn, shall hold their offices during good behavior except those for whom a different provision is made in this constitution. The governor with consent of the council may remove any commissioned officer for reasonable cause upon the address of both houses of the legislature, provided nevertheless that the cause for removal shall be stated fully and substantially in the address and shall not be a cause which is a sufficient ground for impeachment, and provided further that no officer shall be so removed unless he shall have had an opportunity to be heard in his defense by a joint committee of both houses of the legislature."
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