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Author Topic: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty  (Read 15462 times)

Alex Libman

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2011, 10:32:30 pm »

I was speaking in aggregate.

Denis Goddard might be one of 0-2 Free Staters (myself excluded) who still has my total respect.   :) 

who is the other one?

I'm not positive.  Lance Weber is a strong candidate.  But let's not get this thread off-topic...
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2011, 01:23:42 am »

man ... you just ruined Dreepa's day .... he was hoping to be the other one who passed your litmus test.

Hey Dreepa, when you ran for local office, did you even have to associated with a political party? Or did you run on the dreepa (animal) farm ticket?

I know that in Free Grafton elections the Free State Party has been dominant with the communist party running close races.
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

freedomroad

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2011, 01:36:16 am »

One of the most well known state reps in NH covered the recent Union Leader article by Beth about Bob and what he says about the upcoming Manchester elections in this blog post.  Here is the link, http://nhinsider.squarespace.com/rep-steve-vaillancourt/2011/10/15/bob-backus-fears-freedom-and-truth.html
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sj

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 05:09:31 pm »

We shouldnt focus on other political parties but building our own (libertarian obviously.)

There are people doing that, but, to me, it seems like a waste of energy to build a party from the ground up when we have seen the people can easily get elected on one of the two major party labels.  After they're elected, they vote how they want. 
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2011, 06:01:19 pm »

But they are also suffering the pains of the majority within their Party.
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Dreepa

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2011, 11:49:26 pm »

man ... you just ruined Dreepa's day .... he was hoping to be the other one who passed your litmus test.

Hey Dreepa, when you ran for local office, did you even have to associated with a political party? Or did you run on the dreepa (animal) farm ticket?

I know that in Free Grafton elections the Free State Party has been dominant with the communist party running close races.

oh I am not a good guy.
Russell you are right... I was not part of the party.. just the dreepa farm ticket...
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Dreepa

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2011, 11:50:17 pm »

But they are also suffering the pains of the majority within their Party.


really?  have you talked to them about this?  Do you know any of them?
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Skeptikos

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2011, 05:36:53 am »

The dems tend to be more statist and anti-capitalist then the repubs in many areas. We shouldnt focus on other political parties but building our own (libertarian obviously.)

Third parties are a lost cause, due to the way our state institutions are set up. If you want to have a successful Libertarian Party, you need to work on changing those institutions.

Dems are definitely the greater of two evils.  Total Republican political domination for a decade or two is likely a prerequisite for an emergence of a viable Libertarian alternative.

As a Democrat myself, I hate to admit it, but the Democratic Party really is less libertarian on the state level, at least in the state legislature. I've spent some time playing around with the data, and found that Democrats are significantly less libertarian than Republicans, at this level. This is because economic issues make up a very large portion of the issues addressed, and libertarians generally agree more with the right on these issues.

For technical reasons, I don't think the Democratic Party will be changing its positions on these issues any time in the near future. I recommend working within the Republican Party, if at all possible. Within the Republican Party, activists can have more influence because they're a widely accepted part of the GOP coalition. They can make the GOP more libertarian. Libertarians are (mostly) not wanted in the Democratic Party. Anti-libertarian interests and ideologues will fight tooth and nail to keep you out, and to keep your voice from influencing Democratic goals. It'll be much harder to make the Democratic Party more libertarian.

If you (like me) live in a place where Democrats automatically win state elections, or if you (like me) are much more liberal-friendly than the average libertarian, and have more left-leaning priorities, then it can make sense to work within the Democratic Party. But in most cases, it doesn't make sense.

Alex Libman

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2011, 05:45:21 am »

If you took a bunch of Republicans and a bunch of Democrats, and tickled them with a feather while reading them my Private Land Secession ultimatum, who do you figure would give in and agree to it first?   >:D
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2011, 06:13:15 am »

Neither.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2011, 06:19:41 am »

But they are also suffering the pains of the majority within their Party.


really?  have you talked to them about this?  Do you know any of them?
Do you think that voters separate the elected officials... or tend toward Party generalization?
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WendellBerry

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2011, 06:23:30 am »

Quote
As a Democrat myself, I hate to admit it, but the Democratic Party really is less libertarian on the state level, at least in the state legislature. I've spent some time playing around with the data, and found that Democrats are significantly less libertarian than Republicans, at this level. This is because economic issues make up a very large portion of the issues addressed, and libertarians generally agree more with the right on these issues.

That is because the DP is pretty unaware of left-libertarian position of using libertarianism means to achieve leftist goals.
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Skeptikos

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2011, 05:01:58 pm »

Quote
As a Democrat myself, I hate to admit it, but the Democratic Party really is less libertarian on the state level, at least in the state legislature. I've spent some time playing around with the data, and found that Democrats are significantly less libertarian than Republicans, at this level. This is because economic issues make up a very large portion of the issues addressed, and libertarians generally agree more with the right on these issues.

That is because the DP is pretty unaware of left-libertarian position of using libertarianism means to achieve leftist goals.

Not really. It has a whole lot more to do with the variety of interest groups (unions, etc.) who have a vested interest in state intervention.

That's just how the party system works. If a lot of economic libertarians are in one party, then all of the economic non-libertarians group up in the other party to oppose them (and then they work hard to keep economic libertarians from exercising influence within their party).

WendellBerry

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2011, 05:25:33 pm »

I am talking about using libertarian means in the economic realm to achieve leftists goals.
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Skeptikos

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Re: Democratic Party is against candidates that are FSPers or support liberty
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2011, 07:21:46 am »

I am talking about using libertarian means in the economic realm to achieve leftists goals.

Doesn't matter. Libertarian economics-- whether as means or end-- isn't welcome in the Democratic Party. This has been my experience, and the logic of party politics suggests that this will be the case. Go ahead and try it if you don't believe me. You may be able to get a few Democratic voters to agree with you here and there (and if you live in a really politically competitive district, you might be able to get elected with moderate economic views), but the economic goals pursued by the leadership of the Democratic Party are very, very unlikely to change.
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