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Author Topic: The Great State Debate Debates  (Read 44648 times)

ZuG

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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:08 am »

No closing argument was submitted for Montana. It is disqualified from the contest.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 01:04:51 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:19 am »

The Many Advantages of New Hampshire - By Keith Murphy

Libertarian-leaning population:
• Residents actively searching for education alternatives
• Exploding homeschool population
• “Tax Me More” fund for those who want higher taxes
• Demonstrated hatred of taxes
• Least restrictive gun laws in the nation
• No motorcycle helmet law
• No seatbelt law
• No mandatory car insurance law
• Nation’s first elected openly gay bishop (Episcopalian)
• “Live Free or Die” Motto

Election Advantages:
• One rep per 3089 citizens.  Districts begin at 2987.
• Fusion, making multi-member districts easier than single-member districts!
• Two-year election cycle for the entire state government
• Nonpartisan local elections
• Compact size makes campaigning easy
• Over a third of voters are registered Independents!
• History of electing and re-electing Libertarians
• Highest density of FSP members in the nation
• Highest number of elected libertarians among the ten candidate states
• Highest density of LP members in the nation
• Lots of libertarian Republicans already in office
• First-in-the-nation primary will give the FSP national prominence
• 100% paper ballots
• Local town meetings, giving citizens line-item veto power over budgets!
• Executive Council provides unique stepping stone to governor’s office

Financial Advantages:
• Lowest overall tax burden NATIONWIDE
• No sales tax
• No income tax (dividends and interest over $2400/yr only)
• No capital gains taxes
• No inventory tax
• No tax on machinery or equipment

Smallest State Government:
• Smallest state budget, per capita
• Smallest federal dependence of the ten candidate states.  All other states besides DE get a net benefit from DC.
• Smallest number of government employees, per capita
• Tied for lowest percentage of NEA/AFT members

Friends Already in Power:
• FSP member already in the state legislature
• FSP member already appointed by the governor to the Efficiency in Government Commission, tasked with cutting $300 million from the smallest state government in the US
• Governor Craig Benson: “Come on up; we’d love to have you!” in meeting with FSP members

NH Constitution contains:
• Right to Revolution
• No requirement for public schools
• Provision for State Sovereignty
• Acknowledgement of Natural Rights
• Prohibits unfunded state mandates on local jurisdictions

Quality of Life:
• Among the ten states, NH has:
    o Highest percentage of high-tech jobs
    o Highest percentage of knowledge jobs
    o Largest amount of venture capital investment
    o Highest per capita income
    o Second to ID for number of new jobs forecast
    o Highest quality of life, according to Morgan Quitno Press
• Lowest poverty rate
• Coastal border, facilitating international trade
• Canadian border, facilitating international trade
• Borders with two FSP candidate states – ME and VT
• Incredibly diverse terrain – ocean, lakes, mountains, forests
• Multitude of charming New England towns
• Lowest crime rate in the US
• Second healthiest state in the US
• Extensive cellular and high-speed internet infrastructure
• Hiking, skiing, snowmobiling, kayaking, hunting, camping, ocean swimming
• Diverse mix of towns, some with less than ten people per square mile



Learn more: http://www.lpnh.org/101-Reasons-Vote-NH.pdf
 
http://www.nhhomeschooling.org/
http://nh.gov/governor/pr03_06_03taxes.html
http://www4.fosters.com/News2003/June2003/June_13/News/reg_co0613b.asp
http://www.iihs.org/safety_facts/state_laws/restrain3.htm
http://usff.com/hldl/frames/50state.html
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/ens/2003-126.html
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2002/0207/house.htm
http://www.nmef.org/state_indirectban_fusion.htm#newhampshire
http://www.gpus.org/documents/vote_reg.html
http://www.lp.org/organization/NH/
http://www.freestateproject.org/member_maps/MembersByState_numbers.htm
http://www.state.nh.us/revenue/gti-rev.htm
http://www.stateline.org/header_facts.do?headerId=58
http://www.taxfoundation.org/pr-fedtaxspendingratio.html
http://www.bls.gov/eag/
http://www.lpnh.org/pr/pr032403.htm
http://www.state.nh.us/constitution/constitution.html
http://www.neweconomyindex.org/states/1999/newhampshire.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
http://almis.dws.state.ut.us/occ/projections.asp?page=DisplayResults&occ=Total%252C%2520all%2520occupations&sortby=title&area=All&rsPage=5
http://www.morganquitno.com/srml91-03.htm
http://www.stateline.org/fact.do?factId=296901
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/01cius.htm
http://www.morganquitno.com/hcrank03.htm
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/9ee8cb6cf
http://www.visitnh.gov/todo.html
http://www.lpnh.org/nh-pop-density.htm
« Last Edit: July 10, 2003, 03:40:05 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:25 am »

Putting Population in Context


By Keith Murphy, from Baltimore, MD


Some member insist that NH’s population is too large to accomplish change. But why is population so important?  The typical answer is that a lower population is easier to influence.

This is a very simplistic way of comparing the states, because it assumes that all other things are equal.  They obviously are not.  

There are two primary contexts in which to view population.  They are:

Political Culture


Population is only a concern to the degree to which the native population leans against us.  Isn’t it logical that the FSP would have a better chance of success in a state of 1.2 million with low taxes and a “Live Free or Die” attitude than a state of 900,000 with demonstrably more taxes and regulations? While there is not yet a fully libertarian state, some are clearly closer to the ideal than others.  The closer a state comes to that ideal, the more irrelevant the population factor becomes.  

Of the fifty states, NH is closest to that ideal.


Political Access


The FSP site says, “…move to a single state of the U.S., where they may work within the political system…”  Even more than population, this project is dependent on the accessibility of the political system!  Even if the given state has a small population and leans libertarian, if the doors to power are closed to us then we will not be successful.

• NH is the only state with large multi-member districts.  Citizens get as many votes as there are seats.  In large multi-member districts, the major parties often cannot EACH find enough candidates to run.  D’s and R’s are much more likely to give an extra vote to a third-party than to “that other party.”

• Fusion allows us to run under multiple parties simultaneously, putting us on the majors’ literature and giving us their straight ticket votes.  Only NH offers fusion in conjunction with large multi-member districts, virtually ensuring a quick series of legislative victories.

• Only DE and NH offer nonpartisan local races.  This gives us the advantage of running on our message without the party label being an issue.

• For major party status in NH you must only receive 4% of the vote in a statewide race, compared with 5% with ME, ND, and VT, and 10% for WY.  Had it not been for a two-way race in 2002, in which 29K D’s voted for the LP candidate, the WYLP would never have received major party status, which it will almost certainly lose in 2006.

• Only DE, VT, and NH offer district sizes in which it is easy to campaign.  

• Small average district size: NH – 102 sq. miles, WY – 1618 sq. miles, MT – 1456 sq. miles.  It’s nine hours from Sheridan to Cheyenne, the capital of WY, but only two from anywhere in NH to the statehouse.  

• Only the New England states offer the town system of local government.  Towns control their schools, police, taxes, zoning, and all other services.  Any item on a town budget can easily be put up for referendum, providing unmatched control over spending.  

<514 words>

Sources:

http://www.zayda.net/pipermail/wyolp/2002-November/000343.html
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2230
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2389
« Last Edit: July 14, 2003, 05:32:18 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:31 am »

“They Always Come After the Leader” – Defending New Hampshire

By Keith Murphy
Of Baltimore, MD

Quote
NH… may simply have too many people for 20,000 FSP members to convert to even quasi-libertarians.

NH is already quasi-libertarian.  The more a state leans libertarian, the more irrelevant population becomes.

Quote
381 of NH districts are larger than ME’s with 8,443 people/district. ME's Constitutionally can't be multi-seaters like NH’s.

Large multi-seat districts with fusion is a huge advantage that only NH offers.  

Quote
Fusion tries to beat NH's straight-ticket voting

With fusion, we get the straight-ticket votes.

Quote
Quote
Local town meetings
...Maine's towns also have home rule.

NH towns have more autonomy.  Constitution prohibits unfunded mandates and does not require schools.

Quote
NH's emphasis seems directed more toward tax-based funding...

The statewide property tax, the only state education funding, has been reduced, and the governor is just getting started.

Quote
…NH's average district size is much larger than WY's

Only because NH utilizes large multi-member districts, which with fusion guarantees an instant caucus.

Quote
WY has greatest percentage of population in Urban Clusters (39.8%), which will make campaigning there easier...

There’s 100's of miles between clusters! NH has higher % of people in Urban Areas.  

Quote
International borders and coastal access also present a strong opportunity for unwanted federal management...

But WY’s 49.7% federal land ownership isn’t an “opportunity for unwanted federal management?”  

Quote
Nothing about this primary ensures the FSP of any special recognition.

…Except anybody in NH can shake a presidential candidate’s hand and ask him a question – every four years.

Quote
WY has the lowest NEA membership… only 5,713.  NH - 11,834.

Which means proportionally the NEA has 27.65% more influence in WY.  Use percentages!  

Quote
WY has the 2nd fewest actual government employees: 15,991.  NH - 19,092.

1 in 31 WY residents is a government employee.  NH, 1 in 66. Use percentages!

Quote
Neither NH nor WY has short driving distances...

I should have said “two hours from everywhere but the Canadian border.  My apologies.  

It's 7 miles from Concord to the center of population, but 206 miles from Cheyenne to the center of population[/url].  

Quote
NH might have some type of town meeting government, but VT is known for having the strongest...

NH’s is stronger.  Constitution forbids unfunded mandates, and does not require public schools.  The NH Supreme Court did not require schools, it required the state to fund them for poor towns that want them.  VT does not protect from state mandate.  NH towns control 100% of their budgets, and citizens have line-item veto referendum power. 15 signatures required.

Quote

NH is good for gun laws, but it down there with states like ID and WY

NH does not require fingerprints or photo for CCW.  WY sends your fingerprints to the FBI.

Quote
Overall, VT has the 2nd Smallest districts while NH has the 2nd Largest.

...Because NH offers multi-member districts, which are better than single-member districts.  NH’s single-member districts are the smallest in America.


NH's accessible political system and liberty-oriented population offers the best chances of success.  For freedom, vote for NH!




<484 words.  1500 words total for the debate>
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 12:56:18 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:42 am »

The Case for North Dakota - By Karl Beisel

LAND AND ECOLOGY

North Dakota is situated along the Canadian border between Montana to the west and Minnesota to the east, and South Dakota to the south.

Geographically, North Dakota is a big state – more than 44 million acres.  Of that, an astounding 40 million acres are under cultivation; among the largest crops are wheat, barley and sunflower seeds.  It has the 3rd most privately-owned land of any state, more than enough for any free stater to own very large plots of inexpensive raw land, should they so choose.  Most of the uncultivated land is green grassland, with ample game, including bighorn sheep, whitetail and mule deer, antelope, moose, birds and waterfowl.

WEATHER

North Dakota’s cold winters are an oft-cited disadvantage.  Although its weather is best characterized as rapidly changing extremes, instead of simply bad, it compares favorably with some northeastern candidate states, with mild and comfortable summers, plenty of sunshine and low humidity.

POPULATION

North Dakota’s most significant advantage is its low population.  At about 642,000, only Wyoming and Alaska are smaller.  With this lower population, 20,000 people might have a more direct influence on the vote, thus more sway in electing liberty-friendly candidates into office.

North Dakota’s population growth has been very low for decades.  Over the next 20 years, it is expected to grow by only 9,000 people.  This situation is perceived as so desperate, it has spawned ill-conceived ideas such as the New Homestead Act. The Free State Project could offer North Dakota a vital influx of new people.  This low population growth is important as we progress with our reforms, since we can be reasonably assured that the in-migration is mostly pro-liberty.

ECONOMY

North Dakota has been trying to diversify their economy lately, with hi-tech businesses setting up shop in its largest city, Fargo, where its business-friendly policies contrast with those of neighboring Minnesota.

POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT

The overwhelming majority of North Dakota’s legislators and its governor are Republicans, suggesting that the state may tend toward fiscal conservatism.  Indeed, this is backed up by the fact that North Dakota has one of the smallest governments of the candidate states.  Additionally, it has referendums and initiatives, as well as term limits for the legislature and governor.  This can give our activists a great deal of power in directly influencing state law and preventing political entrenchment.  Finally, it has the least expensive campaigns of any other candidate state.

It is sometimes obvserved that North Dakota receives a disproportionate amount of Federal money.  However, the impact of this money on most citizens is unclear, and may be minimal, since much of this money may be in the form of large farm subsidies that benefit primarily large agribusiness operations.  Free staters may have more leeway on this issue than is immediately obvious.

20,000 enterprising liberty lovers could make a significant and immediate mark on North Dakota, both politically and economically.  It should be given serious consideration as an alternative to Wyoming, South Dakota, or Montana.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2003, 03:46:33 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:49 am »

No rebuttal was submitted for North Dakota. It is disqualified from the contest.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 01:05:34 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2003, 01:41:56 am »

No closing argument was submitted from North Dakota. It is disqualified from the contest.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 02:20:57 am by Freedomroad »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:07 am »

South Dakota - By Azurecanine

Let's consider what South Dakota has to offer in
relation to the other states and what makes it the
best candidate for success in this "free state race."

    South Dakota has taken it upon itself to prove
that states don't need income tax from the people.  It
is interesting because there are VERY few states that
believe this.  This is not to say that SD doesn't have
taxes.  When considering the sales tax of the states,
SD only has a 4% tax on all items. This percentage is
relatively low when considering other states.

    Cost of living is another factor.  South Dakota is
among the bottom percentage of cost of living.  This
lower cost of living coupled with a growing economy
only spells success for the state in more ways than
one.  Sioux Falls is home to many large corporation
businesses because there is no corporate tax in this
state.  It is interesting to note that more and more
companies are moving here from other states to take
advantage of this tax break.  With an increase in big
business, little businesses can only benefit.
Construction of new homes and new factories is driving
the premium cost of land in Sioux Falls up very
quickly.  Even though Sioux Falls is a city of about
100,000, it has been noted that it is one of the top
three cities of that size that are showing a high rate
of growth while keeping unemployment at an all time
low of only 2.9%.  Rural living is a majority in South
Dakota but Sioux Falls, Rapid City, and Aberdeen are
all relatively large towns that offer the many things
that individuals enjoy about big cities.  

    The right to keep and bear arms is a big issue for
a many involved in this project.  Even though Alaska
ranks as number one for their gun laws, South Dakota
hasn't ever had a law that made carrying a pistol a
financial burden.  It is VERY economical and
convenient to apply and receive a concealed carry
permit in South Dakota.  If it were any more
economical, it would be a mimic of Alaska and be no
cost at all.  It is important to note that South
Dakota believes that the owner of a firearm is
responsible for that firearm and NOT the manufacturers
or sellers of such items.  

    This porridge is not too hot nor too cold, but
just right.  Because of this middle of the road
outlook and position, South Dakota is best placed at
the top of the FSP list simply because once South
Dakota is picked and changes for the betterment of the
living conditions and political outlook is made, North
Dakota won't be far behind in making the same changes.
This factor is very important in the choice of which
state should be THE Free State.  Within months, North
Dakota would join the trend of South Dakota's success
as it has done so many times before.  Not too cold,
not too hot, but just right.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 04:37:44 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:15 am »

No rebuttal was submitted for South Dakota. It is disqualified from the contest.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 01:08:48 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:22 am »

No closing statement was submitted for South Dakota. It is disqualified from the contest.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 01:09:12 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:35 am »

Vermont - By FreedomRoad

The Green Mountain State is Calling

Vermont is a wonderful state like one of the largest lakes in America (Lake Champlain), the prettiest city in the Northeast (Burlington), and historic mountains.  Vermont has the best hunting laws (along with Wyoming) and a large outdoors culture.  Vermont is a huge tourist destination from April to November.  Why do all of these tourists flock to Vermont?  They flock to Vermont because it is a beautiful state with plenty to do and friendly people.  Do you want to sail from Lake Champlain to Mexico?  Vermont offers this option.  Where are America’s favorite ice cream and the best maple syrup in the world from?  Vermont is the answer to all of these questions and much, much more.

While those are all great subjective reasons to choose Vermont, they are nothing compared to the objective reasons:
•   Smallest cities
•   Very low crime
•   An Independent Senator and US Representative
•   Very Strong third party movement
•   Slow growth rate
•   Compared to the rest of the Northeast, very low cost of living
•   The libertarian Ethan Allen Institute
•   The best border trading partner (Montréal)
•   No federal dependence

Three very important factors pretty much assure that Vermont will be the best New England state for winning election:
1. Second smallest districts (only to Wyoming)
2. Second lowest campaign costs (only to North Dakota)
3. Second smallest population (only to Wyoming)

Take a look at the spreadsheet. (http://www.freestateproject.org/files/statecomparisons.xls)
It ranks Vermont about it the middle.  However, if you take out either the federal dependence factor or the jobs factor, Vermont moves above such states as New Hampshire.  

The only state in a better position to win elections is Wyoming.  However, Vermont has several powerful advantages that Wyoming is missing:
•   Smallest state house districts
•   Vermont Carry Gun law
•   Extremely independent population (even conservatives will vote for socialists as long as they claim to be independent)
•   Northeast location
•   Best chance for Left-Libertarian strategy

Why a Left-Libertarian strategy?
•   Vermont has some public nudity
•   Vermont has same-sex civil unions
•   Vermont has small districts that cost almost nothing to win
•   Vermont has real fusion for candidates
•   A Left third party controls Burlington, we can help keep them in power if they help us
•   Even conservatives vote for socialists
•   Strong geo-libertarian power
•   Vermont supported Ross Perot
•   Vermont has a strong libertarian tradition
•   Vermont is the only state that does not mandate public (government) schools in its Constitution
•   Vermont allows the selling of organic foods and raw milk
•   Libertarians have a proven history of getting elected

In many of the factors Vermont ranks in the middle.  However, in most the very important (make or break) factors Vermont is near the top.  While Vermont does suffer from New England winters, it offers a great deal of things to a great variety of members.  In conclusion, if you rate other small population or New England states highly, than Vermont deserves to be near the top of your list.


Sources:
http://www.freestateproject.org/state.htm
http://www.freestateproject.org/vermont.htm
http://www.freestateproject.org/vermont2.htm
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2271
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=774
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=779
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 02:21:37 am by Freedomroad »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:41 am »

Vermont Rebuttal
By FreedomRoad

All states:
Short Driving distances and smaller districts:
Neither New Hampshire nor Wyoming has short driving distances, despite what NH supporters claim.  Although, Idaho and Montana have the worst driving distances.
(Source: Yahoo Maps)


Quote
From NH Debate: It’s nine hours from Sheridan to Cheyenne, the capital of WY, but only two from anywhere in NH to the statehouse.

NH
•   Colebrook to statehouse – 3:04
•   Berlin – 3:12
•   Stewartstown – 3:18
•   Dixville Notch – 3:19
•   Milan/Pittsburg – 3:23
•   Happy Corner – 3:31
•   Errol – 3:35
•   Etc, etc, etc…

WY
Northern WY (Sheridan) – capital (Cheyenne): 4:51

ME
Northern ME (St Francis) – capital (Augusta): 6:14

SD
Northeastern SD (Rosholt) – capital (Pierre): 6:38

ND
Northeastern ND (Walhalla) – capital (Bismarck): 6:38

MT
Eastern MT (Glendive) – capital (Helena): 7:03

ID
Northern ID (Sandpoint) – capital (Boise): 7:41

AK
Anchorage – capital (Juneau): unable to calculate


Vermont, on the other hand, really does have short driving distances:
Largest city (Burlington) – statehouse (Montpelier): 0:57 min.
Statehouse – southern VT (Bennington): 2:54


New Hampshire:
NH might have some type of town meeting government, but VT is known for having the strongest in the nation.

Quote
From NH Debate: No requirement for public schools
Vermont is the only candidate states that has no state Constitutional mandate for public schools.

Vermont: (Section 68): "a competent number of schools ought to be maintained in each town unless the general assembly permits other provisions for the convenient instruction of youth"

NH: "it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools"

What does the NH Constitution mean?  Ask the students, teachers, and lawyers of NH and they will tell you, in makes NH just like every other state (except VT).  The Supreme Court of NH would laugh out any challenge to this law, anyway, because they are very liberal (but they would even laugh it out if they were conservative).

Quote
From NH Debate: Least restrictive gun laws in the nation

Vermont is world famous for its Vermont Carry law.  Up until a few weeks ago, when Alaska passed an even better bill, Vermont had the least restrict gun laws in the nation.  It (and Wyoming) still has the best hunting laws.  NH is good for gun laws, but it down there with states like ID and WY and not even in the same ball park as Vermont.

NH is not the best state according to:
Vermont and other states beat NH according to these sources:
FSP (http://www.freestateproject.org/state.htm)
Boston Gun Bible (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2291;start=msg34229#msg34229)
Brady Campaign (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2328)

(http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2291;start=0)

Quote
From NH Debate: One rep per 3089 citizens.  Districts begin at 2987.

Overall, Vermont has the 2nd Smallest districts (only to Wyoming) while NH has the 2nd Largest.

The average state house district size for Vermont is much smaller:
Vermont 5,609 (the best)
NH 14,489 (6th)


The average state senate district size for Vermont is much smaller:
Vermont 20,500  
NH 53,000 (worst)


The average statewide election size for Vermont is much smaller:
Vermont 613,000 (2nd best)
NH 1,275,000


(http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2271 )
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 02:25:19 am by Freedomroad »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:47 am »

Vermont Concluding Statement

Follow the Green Mountain Boys to Success
By FreedomRoad

The goals of the FSP are very lofty and high.  They might be possible but even that is uncertain, since this has never been tried before.  Because of this, we must pick a low population, low growth state like Vermont.  In Vermont, if we only had 10,000 people, we could do more good than 20,000 people in a very large, high populated candidate state.  Vermont is the only state that has a proven track record of a small amount of people moving to it and changing it political via an organized effort.  Back in the 1970’s, a group of socialist moved into Vermont and have since changed the state into what it is today.  They agree with us on a lot of our platform and Vermont’s original inhabitants agree with us on many other parts of our platform.

We could work and run as the popular “independents” in Vermont and work with both the controlling socialist and the minority conservatives.  We could make the two groups see eye to eye on many measures and work to make Vermont much freer than Alaska or Wyoming currently is.  Vermont will work and we can make it happen.

Other states have too many problems:

NH:
People from Boston are literally taking over southern NH, the 9th largest (overall) districts, the most expensive elections, the 9th largest number of voters, the 8th highest population (soon to be 9th, because of NH’s rapid growth rate), the highest housing costs, and the highest cost of living.  Together, this means VERY SERIOUS FUTURE PROBLEMS.

Montana:
Montana is another popular state but Montana has very statist courts and press, the lowest standard of living, more socialist than even Vermont, restrictive gun laws, a large and growing Californian population, a huge state government, much higher crime than Vermont, and heavy federal government dependence.

Vermont’s main weak point is not much of a problem:
No Problem with Jobs
Some are concerned about Vermont jobs; even though 20,000 activists (which includes many self-employed, retirees, and non-working spouses) don’t need all the 34,400 projected new jobs; even though libertarians tend to be some of the best and brightest so they will be able to displace many of the unproductive managers and such from their current jobs; even though our immigration will itself generate tons of jobs; even though seasonal, telecommuting, and special jobs will allow members to work in Montreal, Canada, and Albany, Troy, Plattsburg, NY; even though we really only need 9,500 activists (and likely much fewer than 9,500 jobs) in Vermont to be equivalent to 20,000 in a large state.  When you think about, there is very little true concern about lack of jobs in Vermont.

Vermont can do it, but only with your help.  We can lead Vermont to freedom and inspire the people of the West to free either Alaska or Wyoming.  Pick Vermont and two states might be freed.  Pick a large population state and maybe no states will ever be freed.

( words 495 )
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 02:27:21 am by Freedomroad »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2003, 01:42:57 am »

Wyoming: the Best Opportunity for FSP Success[/color] - By RobertH

 
Access to the Political System:[/color]

 
1. Smallest voting-age population - Maximizes FSP activist impact
2. Concentrated population - will not scatter FSP activists over many separate districts
3. True citizen legislature based on small districts - smallest statewide districts,
second smallest Senate districts, and on average, the second smallest House districts,
57 seats needed to control the legislature
4. Best state for voter response to small government agendas (high votes for libertarian candidates)
5. Third least expensive elections
6. Initiative, referendum, and term limits
7. Second highest percentage of citizens born out-of-state


Libertarian Indicators:[/color]

1. State LP has Major Party Status
2. No personal or business income tax
3. Lowest property taxes
4. Best for lack of planning and zoning
5. Second lowest percentage and lowest number of welfare recipients
6. Lowest federal dependence in the West
7. Best hunting laws, highest gun ownership, legal open carry of firearms
8. Third best homeschooling laws
9. Only FSP state without hate crimes laws
10. Helmets not required for adult motorcycle operators
11. WY GOP platform supports euthanasia, pro-choice,
reclaiming all federal lands, and looser adoption restrictions
12. Open containers permitted for auto passengers
13. Wyoming's Congressional Representation (GOP) voting record has been rated as follows:

Republican Liberty Caucus: "libertarian" (both social and fiscal issues)
American Federation of Government Employees: Worst state
National Education Association: Worst
Americans for the Arts: Worst
Gun Owners of America: Best
National Taxpayers Union: Best
VoteHemp.com: Best
Citizens Against Government Waste: second best

14. American Lung Association ranks Wyoming smoking laws: Worst in the nation
15. Anti-Gun Brady Campaign ranks Wyoming: Worst in the nation
16. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal federal circuit court
17. High speed limits (75mph)
18. Highly individualistic society
19. Very friendly and volunteering citizens
20. Liberty and FSP-friendly statewide newspaper
21. Liberty-friendly neighboring states

Opposition Groups:[/color]

1. Fewest unionized teachers
2. Second lowest number of unionized workers
3. Third lowest number of government employees
4. Best religious diversity
5. Lowest voting percentage for Ralph Nader in the nation
6. Big government groups hate Wyoming - see how they rank it in the above section

Jobs and Living:[/color]

1. Casper/Cheyenne 1st and 2nd for "cost of doing business,"
two of the top 12 small US cities for "business and careers"
2. "America's Wealth-Friendliest State"
3. "America's Best Tax Climate for Businesses"
4. Third most "small business friendly" state, nationwide
5. Second for renting costs, "economic freedom," and "general livability."
6. Low housing, land prices, and cost of living
7. Closer to large urban areas than any other Western state

Some states may rank higher on various individual measurements, but when you compare the broad scope of current liberties and opportunities that Wyoming presents, no other state even comes close.  Nowhere else will each of our activists count for so much by themselves, and nowhere else is the state legislature small enough, and the population individualistic and libertarian enough, for us to realistically achieve the majorities that will make liberty in our lifetime possible.  

Wyoming is the best opportunity for FSP success and the future of liberty in this country.[/color]
« Last Edit: July 10, 2003, 03:48:55 am by ZuG »
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Re:The Great State Debate Debates
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2003, 01:43:06 am »

Wyoming's Rebuttals (by RobertH)

Montana[/color]

Quote
...deep belief in independence and self reliance (+85% gun ownership), rugged individualism, hospitality and western style ambiance.

Wyoming has this same culture with a much smaller voting population, less federal dependence (particularly farm subsidies), lower taxes, a smaller, better-managed government, and fewer opposition groups.

Quote
We're self-sufficient in natural resources...

Wyoming exceeds Montana in firearms production, and energy self-sufficiency.  

Idaho[/color]

Quote
Idaho consistently has a high percentage of Libertarian Party votes; the highest percentage of total votes for all Libertarians among states for which we have complete data; and indisputably the highest actual number of people willing to vote for LP candidates.  

Idaho does well in these measures but Wyoming has the highest percentage of LP votes of all the candidate states.  

New Hampshire[/color]

Quote
Residents actively searching for education alternatives

What evidence is there that NH residents are interested in "education alternatives" other than as concerns taxation?  In Wyoming, public schools have actually been closed, and fundamental alternatives are desperately needed.  New Hampshire's emphasis seems directed more toward tax-based funding than alternative education systems.

Quote
Exploding homeschool population

Wyoming has the best homeschool regulatory environment following Alaska and Idaho and ranks as a "low regulation state."  NH ranks as a "moderate regulation" state.

Quote
Districts begin at 2987

This reflects the very smallest districts, but NH's average district size is much larger than Wyoming's:  

WY - 8,317
NH - 14,489

Wyoming's average Senate district size is also much smaller:

WY - 16,500
NH - 53,000

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5; action=display; threadid=2271

New Hampshire's many districts and many multi-seat districts add up to a 400 member House, which, by itself, will require us to take over 200 seats in order to create a majority.  Counting the Senate, we would need some 214 seats to take control of the New Hampshire legislature, as opposed to 57 seats in Wyoming.

Quote
Compact size makes campaigning easy...
Multitude of charming New England towns

Wyoming has greatest percentage of population in Urban Clusters (39.8%), which will make campaigning there easier in spite of the state's large size.  NH - 14.6%

Quote
Highest per capita income

Wyoming has the highest PER CAPITA INCOME after adjusted for cost of living.

This is because while the pay is somewhat similar in the two states, the cost of living is higher in NH.

Cost of living: lower is better
Casper, WY- 96
Cheyenne, WY- 97.6
National- 100
Manchester, NH- 110.5
Nashua, NH- 138.5
Portsmouth, NH- 138.6
Rochester, NH- 138.6"    

Quote
Coastal border, facilitating international trade
Canadian border, facilitating international trade

International borders and coastal access also present a strong opportunity for unwanted federal management and interference due to "security" concerns.

Quote
Borders with two FSP candidate states - ME and VT...

Wyoming borders three FSP states, which are, arguably, more liberty-friendly than ME and VT:  SD, MT, and ID.

Quote
First-in-the-nation primary will give the FSP national prominence

Nothing about this primary ensures the FSP of any special recognition.

Quote
Tied for lowest percentage of NEA/AFT members

Wyoming has the lowest NEA membership, period (of all 50 states) only 5,713.  NH - 11,834.

Quote
Smallest number of government employees, per capita

Wyoming has the 2nd fewest actual government employees: 15,991.  NH - 19,092.

Delaware[/color]

Quote
6) Location:  Proximity to DC and other media centers is a GOOD thing

Wyoming is close to Denver/Fort Collins, Colorado (45 and 90 min, respectively)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 12:49:02 am by ZuG »
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